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Thread: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    From my favorite source: How Many Protesters? | FactCheck.org
    maybe 60-70 thousand in the area around the stage...

    A serious estimate would be in the MINIMUM 300k, likely around 500k, and a max of around 800k.

    In spite of the name, factcheck isn't the most reliable source... better then say wikkipedia, but it still has a bias.

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    maybe 60-70 thousand in the area around the stage...

    A serious estimate would be in the MINIMUM 300k, likely around 500k, and a max of around 800k.

    In spite of the name, factcheck isn't the most reliable source... better then say wikkipedia, but it still has a bias.
    That is close to my personal guess, which is 500 to 750k.

    What do you base your claim of bias at factcheck on, and are you suggesting they are in error in saying the NPS is prohibited from making official estimates?

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That is close to my personal guess, which is 500 to 750k.

    What do you base your claim of bias at factcheck on, and are you suggesting they are in error in saying the NPS is prohibited from making official estimates?
    It's nothing based specifically on this issue... and has more to do with the ownership of the website then any specific grievance. If you look at how the 'checked the facts' for this issue : they read newspapers instead of say checking the facts through the police estimates, or some impartial source.

    Also, I wouldn't go as far as suggest that they are unreliable source, just not an ideal source... mind you, on about 80% of issues the mainstream media is an utter failure in presenting facts without spin (the 20% exception being 'entertainment news') Ex : an article I saw about a woman that died of swine flue... read the first two paragraphs and the woman died from deadly swine flu... read the last two paragraphs and the woman suffered respiratory illness, had been in and out of hospitals for years and had a previously weakened immune system (aka she died while infected with swine flu but not necessarily because of swine flu)

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    A serious estimate would be in the MINIMUM 300k, likely around 500k, and a max of around 800k.
    Lol....based on what?

    Honestly; you guys need to get a grip.

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by REO SpeedDealer View Post
    Lol....based on what?

    Honestly; you guys need to get a grip.
    I'm sorry that I'm not going to go back in the thread some 30+ pages to show the 3 relevant indicators of the REAL numbers...

    A) The panoramic shot shows at least 250k (about 2and a half stadiums worth of people)
    b) The time delay video from the rooftop... this shows a stream of people in a tight crowd from sidewalk to sidewalk that progressed out over at least 6-8 city blocks. I could place that in the 600-700kjust with how consistently thick the crowd of people is through the whole procession.
    c) The tendancy for people to want to exaggerate / reduce numbers for whatever reasons, meaning that those that claim the highest numbers will tend to be exagerating for their benefit... to say it was 60-70thousand was just a laughably small estimate, that had to only been counting people in the area of the stage, since that seemed about the capacity of that area... but then you take that area and see that it was about a tenth of the area that was occupied.

    So, I would go to a max of about 800k to account for places that weren't clearly shown because of angles, trees, and other obstructions. European media was saying in the 1.5 million, probably by asking the police their estimates... which actually would put media and organizaer estimates with a .5 discrepency... that almost makes me think the REAL number was between 1.25 - 1.75 million people... but I didn't count it like that, so I'm going based on the list of things.

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    I'm sorry that I'm not going to go back in the thread some 30+ pages to show the 3 relevant indicators of the REAL numbers...

    A) The panoramic shot shows at least 250k (about 2and a half stadiums worth of people)
    b) The time delay video from the rooftop... this shows a stream of people in a tight crowd from sidewalk to sidewalk that progressed out over at least 6-8 city blocks. I could place that in the 600-700kjust with how consistently thick the crowd of people is through the whole procession.
    c) The tendancy for people to want to exaggerate / reduce numbers for whatever reasons, meaning that those that claim the highest numbers will tend to be exagerating for their benefit... to say it was 60-70thousand was just a laughably small estimate, that had to only been counting people in the area of the stage, since that seemed about the capacity of that area... but then you take that area and see that it was about a tenth of the area that was occupied.

    So, I would go to a max of about 800k to account for places that weren't clearly shown because of angles, trees, and other obstructions. European media was saying in the 1.5 million, probably by asking the police their estimates... which actually would put media and organizaer estimates with a .5 discrepency... that almost makes me think the REAL number was between 1.25 - 1.75 million people... but I didn't count it like that, so I'm going based on the list of things.
    Well I'm glad to hear that you're such an expert at determining crowd size from simply looking at photos. Or maybe it's telepathy? Did you just sense "the vibes" of all those millions of people?

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by REO SpeedDealer View Post
    Well I'm glad to hear that you're such an expert at determining crowd size from simply looking at photos. Or maybe it's telepathy? Did you just sense "the vibes" of all those millions of people?
    When did I say I was an expert?? If anything I said that I was NOT an expert... it doesn't always take an expert to have common sense...
    The common sense that the stream of people was probably around 40-50 people across... it doesn't take many rows deep to get 1000 people... and you can get a feel for the types of numbers watching the flow of people just going on for blocks and blocks... and that's only a few viewpoints...

    If you believe that it was 60-70k of people... I'm sorry, but you clearly didn't see the whole picture.

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by REO SpeedDealer View Post
    Well I'm glad to hear that you're such an expert at determining crowd size from simply looking at photos. Or maybe it's telepathy? Did you just sense "the vibes" of all those millions of people?
    Now be fair. He calls his numbers an "estimate". He is not claiming he is right, only that he is making an estimate, and explains why. I happen to roughly agree with his estimate, despite being a liberal. Mine is more pure guess, but I think it is an educated guess. I would bet big money that there was more than 70k, but I would bet even more that there was not 3 million, not 2 million, not 1.5 million, or even 1 million. While I don't agree with the purpose of the march, I cannot deny that there was an absolute ton of people.

    In my opinion, conservatives made two mistakes with this march. The first was in their hugely exaggerated number claims, which turned the story from the rally itself, and into an argument about numbers that makes them look bad. The second was that the organizers and protesters did not quickly and loudly condemn the more radical elements of the protest. This again shifted the topic away from the point of the rally and onto a topic where they simply will not look good.

    While from a political standpoint I am glad they made these mistakes, on a more personal level I feel bad for the tens to hundreds of thousands of demonstrators who where exercising their rights in this country to protest and demonstrate whose message was lost due to the actions of the radical elements and poor leadership by the organizers.

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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Ex : an article I saw about a woman that died of swine flue... read the first two paragraphs and the woman died from deadly swine flu... read the last two paragraphs and the woman suffered respiratory illness, had been in and out of hospitals for years and had a previously weakened immune system (aka she died while infected with swine flu but not necessarily because of swine flu)
    That is the case with every death article I've read on swine flue in the news.

    It's almost as if someone is taking a good portion of deaths from different things and attributing them to swine flue.
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    Re: Tens of thousands attend broad protest of government in nation's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    In my opinion, conservatives made two mistakes with this march. The first was in their hugely exaggerated number claims, which turned the story from the rally itself, and into an argument about numbers that makes them look bad.
    This was a total media screwup, both sides... that the number was such a drastic difference it creates a false debate... rather then talking about the issues, now we're left discussing the numbers of people.

    I can promise you that while it may seem 'fringe' this is a growing movement... which is why glen beck is trying to takeover this movement and keep it as a 'republican' thing when ultimately it is a 'freedom' thing.

    The second was that the organizers and protesters did not quickly and loudly condemn the more radical elements of the protest. This again shifted the topic away from the point of the rally and onto a topic where they simply will not look good.
    Actually, the BIGGEST indication (IMO) of the success of this was that there was 0 arrests made... I'd have to see examples of what is being counted as 'radical elements' otherwise...

    I've seen videos of on the street interviews, and while there were a few eccentrics and a couple that didn't seem to really know what they were protesting, but the majority that I saw had an understanding of the issue that drew them there.

    While from a political standpoint I am glad they made these mistakes, on a more personal level I feel bad for the tens to hundreds of thousands of demonstrators who where exercising their rights in this country to protest and demonstrate whose message was lost due to the actions of the radical elements and poor leadership by the organizers.
    I'm not sure what specifically you're talking about in terms of 'mistakes'... the biggest problem is that glen beck is attempting to co-opt a legitimate movement.... the reality is that for the most part the people there were leaderless, they've booed down almost as many republicans as they have democrats.

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