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Thread: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Could you please link me to whatever quote it is you're refering to? Its not the now infamous Waterloo quote is it?
    Nope not that quote. Its his followup on Glenn Beck's radio program. He makes it pretty clear if they don't stop health care reform the republican party will lose
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Demint's Comments

    Its not that comment are you? Cause that seems pretty clearly talking about THIS particular bill.

    "Stop Obama on THIS"

    "THIS thing won't pass"

    Seems to me he's talking SPECIFICALLY about this health care reform plan, not "Health care reform" in general.

    Could you please provide a source to back up your claims?
    He said that quote before it was even clear what the plan was going to be. This being health reform not specifically a bill.

    Then lets not forget about Inhofe: "I just hope the President keeps talking about it, keeps trying to rush it through. We can stall it. And that’s going to be a huge gain for those of us who want to turn this thing over in the 2010 election."

    "And for those out there who believe, that would like to have something optimistic to look at, we are plotting the demise on a week by week basis of where Bill Clinton was in 1993 and where Obama is today and his demise ratio is greater than Clinton’s was in 1993"

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    No they don't. You forget Ted Kennedy died no one has replaced his seat. They have 57 democrats. There are 2 independents that caucas with them but Lieberman is a wildcard and never know which way he'll vote. Even if Lieberman voted with them as well as Sanders that makes 59 votes. It takes 60 to defeat a filibuster


    Meh, Still aint the Republicans fault, he needs to stop scapegoating.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Meh, Still aint the Republicans fault, he needs to stop scapegoating.
    haha nice quick reply. Well we'll see when it gets out of committee if there's a filibuster

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Nope not that quote. Its his followup on Glenn Beck's radio program. He makes it pretty clear if they don't stop health care reform the republican party will lose
    No offence, but mind providing me with an exact quote. Your spin in this thread repeatedly doesn't leave me to consider you anywhere near credible to simply take your word on it.

    Context is important if he was saying health care reform, in general, must not happen or specifically the current incarnation.

    He said that quote before it was even clear what the plan was going to be. This being health reform not specifically a bill.
    He said the quote when it was clear that a significant increase in government funded/ran insurance, IE a public option or government control of health care, was going to be included in the bill and a sticking point for Democrats.

    Then lets not forget about Inhofe: "I just hope the President keeps talking about it, keeps trying to rush it through. We can stall it. And thatís going to be a huge gain for those of us who want to turn this thing over in the 2010 election."

    "And for those out there who believe, that would like to have something optimistic to look at, we are plotting the demise on a week by week basis of where Bill Clinton was in 1993 and where Obama is today and his demise ratio is greater than Clintonís was in 1993"
    Please, quote me where I said he's not making it Political. I actually acknowledged he's making it political. I'm just contesting that you and Obama's and others who are spinning and attempting to decieve people by misrepresenting the actual feelings and statements of republicans in regards to reform, or attempting to represent a small minorities opinions as if they're the majority, is ALSO making it political.

    And still, absolutely nothing you just posted states that Demint, or republicans in general, are against Health Care Reform...et al, in general, end all be all, NO reform. Simply that they are against the reform as its being primarily pushed currently by Democrats.

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Again: you didnt answer the question -- did the Dems just roll over and give the tax cuts to him, or did they not?
    There's really nothing they could do at that point. Again it just shows a lack of compromising on the part of the GOP. Which is what we were discussing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You can characterize it however you want in order to avoid having to admit you;re wrong -- its STILL not what you said.
    If that wasn't the case democrats would have actually stood up and fought him which we both know wasn't the case. You original question was about what the Bush administration got.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    And, note that "I won, try to stop me" is NOT the same as "since I won, you have no place to stop me", as you suggested -- in fact, its clearly the opposite.
    Not entirely. I won try to stop me is a way of bragging and saying you can't stop me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post

    Asking for a straight vote is an expectation of capitulation?
    That's not what I said. Its a compromise which isn't always expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Show these things to examples of this -- as it ssems to me that the Dems mustered opposition to each and every one of them.
    Opposition? Lets see the FISA bill originally there was a provision that telecoms would not be immune and the democrats ended up capitulating and giving the telecoms retroactive immunity, which is unconstitutional. The timetables in iraq originally the democrats said they wouldn't allow a supplemental to go through without timetables, they capitulated on that. Also on the FISA bill Bush wanted a bill before the reccess and was complaining about it needing it to "protect america" the democrats compromised instead of going through the special intelligence court it was moved to the AG and DNI. So yes this is capitulation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    And I'll ask again, just because I know you will skip it from adove:
    Did the Dems just roll over and give the tax cuts to him, or did they not?
    Keep asking it what was there that they could do? Didn't seem they made a big enough stink about it though. I provided other examples of the bush administration getting what they wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Not, its spot on -- you expect the GOP to accept the one provision they cannot. Thats capitulation, regardless of how many 'gimmies' you offer to them.
    That's not capitulation again you seem to not understand the word compromise. Its not being steadfast and holding out because you want everything you want. Both sides have to give so far its been the democrats giving and the republicans taking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes, you are changing the subject; however relqted you think it is, you're still discussing someting other than what I said.
    Well then if this is about "principles" that would be a changing of the subject as well as we're talking about compromise. That's what your logic is regardless of how related it is.

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And still, absolutely nothing you just posted states that Demint, or republicans in general, are against Health Care Reform...et al, in general, end all be all, NO reform. Simply that they are against the reform as its being primarily pushed currently by Democrats.
    This would mean something if the republicans where doing something other than trying to stop health care. Where are republicans saying what they would vote for? Where are republicans saying what they do want? Without that, then yes, republicans are, in action, doing nothing more than attempting to stop health care reform.

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This would mean something if the republicans where doing something other than trying to stop health care. Where are republicans saying what they would vote for? Where are republicans saying what they do want? Without that, then yes, republicans are, in action, doing nothing more than attempting to stop health care reform.
    I wonder:
    Do you really believe that the GOP has not offered alternative plans, or do you know better and posted hoping that you dont get caught?

    The GOP's Health-Care Alternative - WSJ.com
    House GOP outlines health care bill - CNN.com

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This would mean something if the republicans where doing something other than trying to stop health care.
    There's little else they can do. It'd be not just politically stupid, but logically stupid, to try anything other than stopping this at the moment.

    To stop this from happening, and thus please and properly represent their constituents they only need to keep their own party in check with the votes and sway a few democrats

    To actually get their version of what they want past they would need to not only keep all in their own party in check but gain enough democratic support that it would bypass a potential fillibuster and veto.

    One only needs to get a handful of people, the other needs a huge amount.

    LOGICALLY, the more intelligent thing to do to properly represent the people that voted them into power would be to attempt to stop this thing that shows no sign of removing the one thing their constituents desperately do not want under any circumstances....further government control over distributing health care.

    The #1 thing republican voters do not want right now is a public option or further government control directly of insurance/health care. They'd be doing their voters a disservice to go for it. That's the biggest issue. I've not heard Republicans say we refuse to compromise on anything and everything that deals with health care reform....just that simply they're not going to vote for something that has a form of expanding government ran health care.

    Where are republicans saying what they would vote for?
    There's been multiple bills put forth by Republicans, but as described above, they're fruitless and useless in the make up of the congress at the moment. We will never get to a legitimate discussion of what they would vote for because they've made it clear, they're not going to vote for anything that has this increased amount of government control over the distribution health care and Democrats, by and large, have made it pretty clear that its unlikely that they will have enough votes on their side to push any plan that doesn't have at the very least a public option.

    So BOTH sides are playing politics, sticking their heels in the ground, and saying "we're not budging on this point" and thus there is no talk about what people would vote for because its fruitless until such a time you get past the big giant road block...which doesn't appear likely from either side.

    Where are republicans saying what they do want? Without that, then yes, republicans are, in action, doing nothing more than attempting to stop health care reform.
    Nope, that means by their actions they refuse to go forward with any kind of reform that has a public option or greater form of government ran health care. You don't get to wave a magic wand and make it mean more than it means because you can't come up with a legitimate quote from Demint, let alone proof that a majority of republicans, that shows he/they're attempting to do or want as you claim....IE no health care reform at all, in any way.

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    haha nice quick reply. Well we'll see when it gets out of committee if there's a filibuster




    I sure hope there is one!


    then we will have something for you all to complain about as we cheer.
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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This would mean something if the republicans where doing something other than trying to stop health care. Where are republicans saying what they would vote for? Where are republicans saying what they do want? Without that, then yes, republicans are, in action, doing nothing more than attempting to stop health care reform.
    Read my above post.

    There have been republican bills put forth. They're pointless. Its idiotic, illogical, and frankly a waste of effort for Republicans to massively try to push fully their version of thinsg right now because its just frankly going to be extremely improbable to pass. Point blank. That's it. its like trying to go ahead and play a 60 minute basketball game with a single player on your team against a fully stacked team on the other side. Sure, there's a tiny fraction of a chance, but in all reality its just not going to happen.

    Beyond that, there's no big point or incentive right now to talk about other factors of the vote in any major way....however its pure ignorance or willful ignoring of things to claim that there is absolutely no republican, either joe voter or elected official, that hasn't or isn't talking about forms of health care reform they'd be in favor of. There is a giant, huge, MAMMOTH sized wall at the forefront of this in regards to the public option. And its pointless for either side to really massively discuss anything else until that gets solved one way or another because all that talk will be for naught. The Democrats are likely not going to have enough votes at this moment to get something passed that doesn't include a public option in some form, and Republicans are not going to agree to any bill that has a Public Option. So any talk of other things to compromise on or move forward on would actually be rather fruitless and just as much "playing politics" as anything else because it'd be them flapping their gums for no other reason than to try and say "See, we were TRYING something" when in reality both sides know diddly is going to be done due to the big giant Wall in between them.

    Republicans are not against reform by and large. There are republican sponsored bills and amendments. There have been Republicans both elected and non-elected in numerous places talking about various ideas for reform. I can't think of a large amount of republicans that have sat here and gone "absolutely no reform of any kind at all" or "absolutely no compromise of any kind at all", but that simply they're not going to budge in regards to a public option.

    And if you're trying to say that the Public Option is the only way you can have reform, and if you're against a bill with that then you're against reform, then frankly that's no less playing politics than Demint because the notion that that's the "only" form of Reform at all and anyone against it is against reform is absolutely asinine.

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