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Thread: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Obama says:

    "I believe that we will have enough votes to pass not just any health care bill, but a good health care bill that helps the American people, reduces costs, actually over the long-term controls our deficit. I'm confident that we've got that,"
    So how is there even a problem?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Obama says:



    So how is there even a problem?
    Problem is Americans don't want Obama's crappy, indecipherable monstrosity of a health care bill, so he needs to place the blame anywhere besides himself e.g., the GOP.

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Obama says:



    So how is there even a problem?


    Problem is with the failed logic of those that think criticizing 'those in the Republican party who think that the best thing to do is just to kill reform' ipso facto means that Pres Obama does not have the votes to pass a good bill.


    That would be a big problem. With logic on the part of the one putting it forward. Not with Pres Obama's statements.





    From the OP:


    "I believe that we will have enough votes to pass not just any health care bill, but a good health care bill that helps the American people, reduces costs, actually over the long-term controls our deficit. I'm confident that we've got that," Obama said in an interview broadcast Sunday on CBS' "60 Minutes. "There are those in the Republican party who think the best thing to do is just to kill reform. That that will be good politics."

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    "I believe that we will have enough votes to pass not just any health care bill, but a good health care bill that helps the American people, reduces costs, actually over the long-term controls our deficit. I'm confident that we've got that," Obama said in an interview broadcast Sunday on CBS' "60 Minutes. "There are those in the Republican party who think the best thing to do is just to kill reform. That that will be good politics."
    All of which is based on the lie that the GOP wants to kill reform.
    It wants to kill THIS reform.
    While THIS reform is the only reform The Obama and His minions want to pass, it is NOT the only reform possible.
    Thus, the lie.

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Off the top of my head the bush tax cuts which were rammed through with the budget reconciliation process. So in other words theres no sense of compromising the republicans only want their bill passed regardless of what the democrats put in for them or take out. Demint made it quite clear they dont want health reform to pass just as they didnt back in the 90s because it would hurt the republican party


    Glad to see you "politicizing" Health Care reform by stating positively BS spin like that. Make some more stuff up, its fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Reconciliation was used by the Republicans for Bush tax cuts in '01 and '03
    Which isn't really outside the realm its meant to be for

    extending capital gains and dividends tax cuts in '05, spending cuts in '05
    Which isn't really outside the realm its meant to be for

    and they argued for using it for opening up ANWR to drilling in '05, but I don't remember what happened with that bill.
    Which seems to be stretching the realm it was meant for, much like using it for health care reform, that i'd have greatly opposed and disagreed with if they used it for it.

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post

    Which isn't really outside the realm its meant to be for

    ---- > IA

    Which isn't really outside the realm its meant to be for

    ---- > IA

    Which seems to be stretching the realm it was meant for, much like using it for health care reform, that i'd have greatly opposed and disagreed with if they used it for it.

    -----> IA, b/c drilling in ANWR isn't spending or taxes

    answers in red up above, plus ~


    But, you didn't comment on reconciliation for health care. I don't see a problem with that process being used for health care. Neither does Bill Frist, former Republican majority leader of the Senate:

    BENNET: We just had Bill Kristol on. He said he’s got real doubts that [Obama] will be able to pull [health care reform] off. Bottom line, Do you think they can?

    FRIST: Nah, I think Bill’s wrong. I think they’ll pull it off. … You can drive things through a fifty vote threshold, instead of that sixty vote threshold. And you don’t do it maybe one out of a thousand bills do you do it on. But it’s legal, it’s ethical, you can do it. And it has been suggested and accepted by the administration, pretty directly that if it came down to it, they’re going to drive this thing through a fifty-vote door. And if they do that…they can pass whatever they want to. I hope that they don’t do that.

    Think Progress Frist On Using Reconciliation Process To Pass Health Care Reform: ‘It’s Legal, It’s Ethical’

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Many, not all, in the Republican party have seeded lies throughout the population. This is not just an A.M. radio phenomenon but has become an issue as politicians pick up the crazy talk and act as if it is fact. Through their blatant lies they have caused people to fear and then advocate to their representatives against their own well being. So, yes, the Republicans are trying to block health care just like they did last time.

    Second, I don't think it is only Republicans, but rather, misguided centrists and conservatives (blue dawgs) on the Democratic side. ALL evidence points toward UHC being cheaper and far more efficient than anything we have and frankly the conservatives and centrists want to opt to protect the companies rather than the American public. If you're curious about cost, here you go:

    Compare International Medical Bills : NPR

    You would keep more money in your own pockets by paying taxes for your health care rather than paying so called free market companies. It's just a fact. Why Republicans and Blue Dawgs want us to waste our money on paying more for less quality care is beyond me. Voting against a public option is voting against the best interest of the American public and it shows again and again and again in the evidence.
    It's time for a revolution in our country. Not a revolution forged with guns and bombs but a revolution forged of compassion and altruism. A revolution that extends a hand to those who don't have and who cannot. A revolution that makes Health Care available to all those in the US.

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Irrelevant to the point.
    I said:

    I then asked:

    Did the Dems roll over and give GWB the tax cuts?
    Did the GOP argue that 'we won, give us what we want'?
    Multiple tax cuts not just the first one. Yeah the GOP did say that. When Bush was reelected by a thin majority he claimed a mandate. Plenty of times the GOP was asking for up and down votes on confirmation and legislation. Gonzales got through on compromise, Muckasey with his faults was pushed through because they needed an AG. The torture legislation in 2006 was passed when the democrats compromised and let the president do what he was already doing. The multiple iraq supplemental bills compromised without timetables. The bankruptcy bill. Again times the democrats compromised and got nothing out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You really need to stop creating strawmen by putting words in my mouth.

    The issue here is comprimise.

    You're arguing that the Dems have tried to comprimise by adding some things the GOP wants included -- and as far as that goes, you have some degree of credibility. What you fail to recognize, willfully or otherwise, is that, in order for the GOP, being the GOP, to support the bill, the bill has to NOT have things in it that the GOP CANNOT support. When the Dems start talking about the removal of those things, then the issue of comprimise and the GOPs supposed unwiliingness to do so, will be open for discussion.
    That's not compromise that's called capitulation. When you want everything your way and everything else be damned. Compromise would be the GOP getting some of the stuff they want and the democrats getting some of the things they want. Not the GOP getting everything they want taken out of the bill and everything they want put in the bill. Again the democrats did what the republicans wanted on the stimulus bill and they still voted against it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    That is, you cannot expect a party to vote for something that goes against its core political positions; you then cannot refuse to address the difference in that position and argue that you tried to comprimise because you added a few things that said party might like.
    Except when its convenient right? They seem to have no problem dropping principles when they hold the keys.

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    So, yes, the Republicans are trying to block health care just like they did last time.
    And, if they succeed, we will be forever better for it.

    You would keep more money in your own pockets by paying taxes for your health care rather than paying so called free market companies. It's just a fact.
    Translation:
    No, I cannot really back it up -- but its still a fact!

    Why Republicans and Blue Dawgs want us to waste our money on paying more for less quality care is beyond me
    The basic idea that the government exists to protect yrou rights, not provide you the means to exercise them?
    That having a right does not mean having the right to have others provide you the means to exercise that right?
    Oh wait -- those ideas ARE beyond you.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 09-14-09 at 03:14 PM.

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    Re: Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post


    Glad to see you "politicizing" Health Care reform by stating positively BS spin like that. Make some more stuff up, its fun.
    No spin. Demint said what he said and multiple republicans have supported it. He didn't say if we kill this bill he said if we kill health reform. He meant health reform specifically and he made it political not me. They are about killing reform. Back then they even said it would hurt them if health care passed when it was tried in the 90s.
    Last edited by PogueMoran; 09-14-09 at 03:12 PM.

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