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Obama Criticizes Republicans for Blocking Health Care Bill

Problem is with the failed logic of those that think criticizing 'those in the Republican party who think that the best thing to do is just to kill reform' ipso facto means that Pres Obama does not have the votes to pass a good bill.


That would be a big problem. With logic on the part of the one putting it forward. Not with Pres Obama's statements.

:lamo



From the OP:


"I believe that we will have enough votes to pass not just any health care bill, but a good health care bill that helps the American people, reduces costs, actually over the long-term controls our deficit. I'm confident that we've got that," Obama said in an interview broadcast Sunday on CBS' "60 Minutes. "There are those in the Republican party who think the best thing to do is just to kill reform. That that will be good politics."​

So?

If they have the votes to pass the bill, why are they whining about Republicans at all? Why not just pass the damn thing and be done with it?

Me, I think HE thinks bashing Republicans over it is "good politics."
 
Multiple tax cuts not just the first one. Yeah the GOP did say that.
Prove it.
And, you didnt answer the question -- did the Dems just roll over and give the tax cuts to him, or did they not?

When Bush was reelected by a thin majority he claimed a mandate.
Claiming a mandate =/= "We won, give us what we want".

Plenty of times the GOP was asking for up and down votes on confirmation and legislation.
Asking for a up/down vote =/= "We won, give us what we want".

So, if these are the total of your responses, its clear you cannot support the idea that the Dems rolled over for GWB and that GWB bullied them into it by reminding them that they lost the election.

Thus rendering moot YOUR point that:
The republicans seem to forget they lost the election.

That's not compromise that's called capitulation.
Which is exactly what you expect of the GOP.

Except when its convenient right? They seem to have no problem dropping principles when they hold the keys.
Ah... you cannot refute the point, so you try to change the subject.
I'll take that as your concession of the issue.
 
And, if they succeed, we will be forever better for it.


Translation:
No, I cannot really back it up -- but its still a fact!

.
The basic idea that the government exists to protect yrou rights, not provide you the means to exercise them?
That having a right does not mean having the right to have others provide you the means to exercise that right?
Oh wait -- those ideas ARE beyond you.

And again, you ignore facts.
 
And again, you ignore facts.
You havent presented any facts, only opinion masquerading as such.

Never mind the fact that you didnt actually address anything I wrote.
 
Me, I think HE thinks bashing Republicans over it is "good politics."
And, The Obami, the useful idiots that they are, clearly agree.
 
No spin. Demint said what he said and multiple republicans have supported it. He didn't say if we kill this bill he said if we kill health reform. He meant health reform specifically and he made it political not me. They are about killing reform. Back then they even said it would hurt them if health care passed when it was tried in the 90s.

Could you please link me to whatever quote it is you're refering to? Its not the now infamous Waterloo quote is it?

"If we're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him."

...

DeMint said he could "almost guarantee you this thing won't pass before August, and if we can hold it back until we go home for a month's break in August...Senators and Congressmen will come back in September afraid to vote against the American people."

Demint's Comments

Its not that comment are you? Cause that seems pretty clearly talking about THIS particular bill.

"Stop Obama on THIS"

"THIS thing won't pass"

Seems to me he's talking SPECIFICALLY about this health care reform plan, not "Health care reform" in general.

Could you please provide a source to back up your claims?
 
Prove it.
And, you didnt answer the question -- did the Dems just roll over and give the tax cuts to him, or did they not?

You forget about the line of "elections have consequences" which is what the GOP was saying after they won.

Claiming a mandate =/= "We won, give us what we want".
More like I won I'm going to do whatever I feel like try to stop me

Asking for a up/down vote =/= "We won, give us what we want".
Considering not all things get up and down votes sounds like them wanting the dems to capitulate.

So, if these are the total of your responses, its clear you cannot support the idea that the Dems rolled over for GWB and that GWB bullied them into it by reminding them that they lost the election.
I see you skipped the other examples I gave you where the dems did roll over on the iraq supplementals, on the torture legislation, on the FISA revisions, Telecom immunity

Thus rendering moot YOUR point that:

Yeah if you skip every example given and act like I never gave them.

Which is exactly what you expect of the GOP.
No not even close. I expect if the GOP is going to offer up provisions and they get put in the bill they should actually vote on it otherwise the democrats shouldn't insert their provisions into bills. Again this is about the GOPs refusal to compromise when the Democrats are willing to.

Ah... you cannot refute the point, so you try to change the subject.
I'll take that as your concession of the issue.

No not changing the subject its related. You brought up principles which the GOP somehow have except when they have the power.
 
Dems have a filibuster proof majority.... so no.

No they don't. You forget Ted Kennedy died no one has replaced his seat. They have 57 democrats. There are 2 independents that caucas with them but Lieberman is a wildcard and never know which way he'll vote. Even if Lieberman voted with them as well as Sanders that makes 59 votes. It takes 60 to defeat a filibuster
 
You forget about the line of "elections have consequences" which is what the GOP was saying after they won.
Again: you didnt answer the question -- did the Dems just roll over and give the tax cuts to him, or did they not?

More like I won I'm going to do whatever I feel like try to stop me
You can characterize it however you want in order to avoid having to admit you;re wrong -- its STILL not what you said.

And, note that "I won, try to stop me" is NOT the same as "since I won, you have no place to stop me", as you suggested -- in fact, its clearly the opposite.

Considering not all things get up and down votes sounds like them wanting the dems to capitulate.
:rofl
Asking for a straight vote is an expectation of capitulation?
:rofl

I see you skipped the other examples I gave you where the dems did roll over on the iraq supplementals, on the torture legislation, on the FISA revisions, Telecom immunity
Show these things to examples of this -- as it ssems to me that the Dems mustered opposition to each and every one of them.

Yeah if you skip every example given and act like I never gave them.
See above.

And I'll ask again, just because I know you will skip it from adove:
Did the Dems just roll over and give the tax cuts to him, or did they not?

No not even close.
Not, its spot on -- you expect the GOP to accept the one provision they cannot. Thats capitulation, regardless of how many 'gimmies' you offer to them.

No not changing the subject its related.
Yes, you are changing the subject; however relqted you think it is, you're still discussing someting other than what I said.
 
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Could you please link me to whatever quote it is you're refering to? Its not the now infamous Waterloo quote is it?

Nope not that quote. Its his followup on Glenn Beck's radio program. He makes it pretty clear if they don't stop health care reform the republican party will lose
Demint's Comments

Its not that comment are you? Cause that seems pretty clearly talking about THIS particular bill.

"Stop Obama on THIS"

"THIS thing won't pass"

Seems to me he's talking SPECIFICALLY about this health care reform plan, not "Health care reform" in general.

Could you please provide a source to back up your claims?

He said that quote before it was even clear what the plan was going to be. This being health reform not specifically a bill.

Then lets not forget about Inhofe: "I just hope the President keeps talking about it, keeps trying to rush it through. We can stall it. And that’s going to be a huge gain for those of us who want to turn this thing over in the 2010 election."

"And for those out there who believe, that would like to have something optimistic to look at, we are plotting the demise on a week by week basis of where Bill Clinton was in 1993 and where Obama is today and his demise ratio is greater than Clinton’s was in 1993"
 
No they don't. You forget Ted Kennedy died no one has replaced his seat. They have 57 democrats. There are 2 independents that caucas with them but Lieberman is a wildcard and never know which way he'll vote. Even if Lieberman voted with them as well as Sanders that makes 59 votes. It takes 60 to defeat a filibuster



Meh, Still aint the Republicans fault, he needs to stop scapegoating. :lol:
 
Nope not that quote. Its his followup on Glenn Beck's radio program. He makes it pretty clear if they don't stop health care reform the republican party will lose

No offence, but mind providing me with an exact quote. Your spin in this thread repeatedly doesn't leave me to consider you anywhere near credible to simply take your word on it.

Context is important if he was saying health care reform, in general, must not happen or specifically the current incarnation.

He said that quote before it was even clear what the plan was going to be. This being health reform not specifically a bill.

He said the quote when it was clear that a significant increase in government funded/ran insurance, IE a public option or government control of health care, was going to be included in the bill and a sticking point for Democrats.

Then lets not forget about Inhofe: "I just hope the President keeps talking about it, keeps trying to rush it through. We can stall it. And that’s going to be a huge gain for those of us who want to turn this thing over in the 2010 election."

"And for those out there who believe, that would like to have something optimistic to look at, we are plotting the demise on a week by week basis of where Bill Clinton was in 1993 and where Obama is today and his demise ratio is greater than Clinton’s was in 1993"

Please, quote me where I said he's not making it Political. I actually acknowledged he's making it political. I'm just contesting that you and Obama's and others who are spinning and attempting to decieve people by misrepresenting the actual feelings and statements of republicans in regards to reform, or attempting to represent a small minorities opinions as if they're the majority, is ALSO making it political.

And still, absolutely nothing you just posted states that Demint, or republicans in general, are against Health Care Reform...et al, in general, end all be all, NO reform. Simply that they are against the reform as its being primarily pushed currently by Democrats.
 
Again: you didnt answer the question -- did the Dems just roll over and give the tax cuts to him, or did they not?

There's really nothing they could do at that point. Again it just shows a lack of compromising on the part of the GOP. Which is what we were discussing.

You can characterize it however you want in order to avoid having to admit you;re wrong -- its STILL not what you said.
If that wasn't the case democrats would have actually stood up and fought him which we both know wasn't the case. You original question was about what the Bush administration got.

And, note that "I won, try to stop me" is NOT the same as "since I won, you have no place to stop me", as you suggested -- in fact, its clearly the opposite.

Not entirely. I won try to stop me is a way of bragging and saying you can't stop me.


:rofl
Asking for a straight vote is an expectation of capitulation?
:rofl
That's not what I said. Its a compromise which isn't always expected.

Show these things to examples of this -- as it ssems to me that the Dems mustered opposition to each and every one of them.

Opposition? Lets see the FISA bill originally there was a provision that telecoms would not be immune and the democrats ended up capitulating and giving the telecoms retroactive immunity, which is unconstitutional. The timetables in iraq originally the democrats said they wouldn't allow a supplemental to go through without timetables, they capitulated on that. Also on the FISA bill Bush wanted a bill before the reccess and was complaining about it needing it to "protect america" the democrats compromised instead of going through the special intelligence court it was moved to the AG and DNI. So yes this is capitulation.

And I'll ask again, just because I know you will skip it from adove:
Did the Dems just roll over and give the tax cuts to him, or did they not?

Keep asking it what was there that they could do? Didn't seem they made a big enough stink about it though. I provided other examples of the bush administration getting what they wanted

Not, its spot on -- you expect the GOP to accept the one provision they cannot. Thats capitulation, regardless of how many 'gimmies' you offer to them.
That's not capitulation again you seem to not understand the word compromise. Its not being steadfast and holding out because you want everything you want. Both sides have to give so far its been the democrats giving and the republicans taking.

Yes, you are changing the subject; however relqted you think it is, you're still discussing someting other than what I said.
Well then if this is about "principles" that would be a changing of the subject as well as we're talking about compromise. That's what your logic is regardless of how related it is.
 
And still, absolutely nothing you just posted states that Demint, or republicans in general, are against Health Care Reform...et al, in general, end all be all, NO reform. Simply that they are against the reform as its being primarily pushed currently by Democrats.

This would mean something if the republicans where doing something other than trying to stop health care. Where are republicans saying what they would vote for? Where are republicans saying what they do want? Without that, then yes, republicans are, in action, doing nothing more than attempting to stop health care reform.
 
This would mean something if the republicans where doing something other than trying to stop health care. Where are republicans saying what they would vote for? Where are republicans saying what they do want? Without that, then yes, republicans are, in action, doing nothing more than attempting to stop health care reform.
I wonder:
Do you really believe that the GOP has not offered alternative plans, or do you know better and posted hoping that you dont get caught?

The GOP's Health-Care Alternative - WSJ.com
House GOP outlines health care bill - CNN.com
 
This would mean something if the republicans where doing something other than trying to stop health care.

There's little else they can do. It'd be not just politically stupid, but logically stupid, to try anything other than stopping this at the moment.

To stop this from happening, and thus please and properly represent their constituents they only need to keep their own party in check with the votes and sway a few democrats

To actually get their version of what they want past they would need to not only keep all in their own party in check but gain enough democratic support that it would bypass a potential fillibuster and veto.

One only needs to get a handful of people, the other needs a huge amount.

LOGICALLY, the more intelligent thing to do to properly represent the people that voted them into power would be to attempt to stop this thing that shows no sign of removing the one thing their constituents desperately do not want under any circumstances....further government control over distributing health care.

The #1 thing republican voters do not want right now is a public option or further government control directly of insurance/health care. They'd be doing their voters a disservice to go for it. That's the biggest issue. I've not heard Republicans say we refuse to compromise on anything and everything that deals with health care reform....just that simply they're not going to vote for something that has a form of expanding government ran health care.

Where are republicans saying what they would vote for?

There's been multiple bills put forth by Republicans, but as described above, they're fruitless and useless in the make up of the congress at the moment. We will never get to a legitimate discussion of what they would vote for because they've made it clear, they're not going to vote for anything that has this increased amount of government control over the distribution health care and Democrats, by and large, have made it pretty clear that its unlikely that they will have enough votes on their side to push any plan that doesn't have at the very least a public option.

So BOTH sides are playing politics, sticking their heels in the ground, and saying "we're not budging on this point" and thus there is no talk about what people would vote for because its fruitless until such a time you get past the big giant road block...which doesn't appear likely from either side.

Where are republicans saying what they do want? Without that, then yes, republicans are, in action, doing nothing more than attempting to stop health care reform.

Nope, that means by their actions they refuse to go forward with any kind of reform that has a public option or greater form of government ran health care. You don't get to wave a magic wand and make it mean more than it means because you can't come up with a legitimate quote from Demint, let alone proof that a majority of republicans, that shows he/they're attempting to do or want as you claim....IE no health care reform at all, in any way.
 
This would mean something if the republicans where doing something other than trying to stop health care. Where are republicans saying what they would vote for? Where are republicans saying what they do want? Without that, then yes, republicans are, in action, doing nothing more than attempting to stop health care reform.

Read my above post.

There have been republican bills put forth. They're pointless. Its idiotic, illogical, and frankly a waste of effort for Republicans to massively try to push fully their version of thinsg right now because its just frankly going to be extremely improbable to pass. Point blank. That's it. its like trying to go ahead and play a 60 minute basketball game with a single player on your team against a fully stacked team on the other side. Sure, there's a tiny fraction of a chance, but in all reality its just not going to happen.

Beyond that, there's no big point or incentive right now to talk about other factors of the vote in any major way....however its pure ignorance or willful ignoring of things to claim that there is absolutely no republican, either joe voter or elected official, that hasn't or isn't talking about forms of health care reform they'd be in favor of. There is a giant, huge, MAMMOTH sized wall at the forefront of this in regards to the public option. And its pointless for either side to really massively discuss anything else until that gets solved one way or another because all that talk will be for naught. The Democrats are likely not going to have enough votes at this moment to get something passed that doesn't include a public option in some form, and Republicans are not going to agree to any bill that has a Public Option. So any talk of other things to compromise on or move forward on would actually be rather fruitless and just as much "playing politics" as anything else because it'd be them flapping their gums for no other reason than to try and say "See, we were TRYING something" when in reality both sides know diddly is going to be done due to the big giant Wall in between them.

Republicans are not against reform by and large. There are republican sponsored bills and amendments. There have been Republicans both elected and non-elected in numerous places talking about various ideas for reform. I can't think of a large amount of republicans that have sat here and gone "absolutely no reform of any kind at all" or "absolutely no compromise of any kind at all", but that simply they're not going to budge in regards to a public option.

And if you're trying to say that the Public Option is the only way you can have reform, and if you're against a bill with that then you're against reform, then frankly that's no less playing politics than Demint because the notion that that's the "only" form of Reform at all and anyone against it is against reform is absolutely asinine.
 
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So?

If they have the votes to pass the bill, why are they whining about Republicans at all? Why not just pass the damn thing and be done with it?

Me, I think HE thinks bashing Republicans over it is "good politics."


Whaddya, mean, SO? You asked the question - don't like the answer .... again???

:rofl


As to why not pass the bill - sure thing, have the Republicans quit whining about majority votes (reconciliation). GOPers are the whiners .... wah wah wah wah ...... stfu already.


As to Obama 'bashing' .... he's doing nothing of the kind, and none by the most hyperpartisan thinks he is. Wassamatta grasshoppa, don't like any criticism AT ALL?


Toooooo bad.
 
This would mean something if the republicans where doing something other than trying to stop health care. Where are republicans saying what they would vote for? Where are republicans saying what they do want? Without that, then yes, republicans are, in action, doing nothing more than attempting to stop health care reform.


And ... where were the Republicans when they had majorities in both houses AND the presidency?
 
As to why not pass the bill - sure thing, have the Republicans quit whining about majority votes (reconciliation). GOPers are the whiners .... wah wah wah wah ...... stfu already.

You haven't asnwered his question.
If The Obama has the votes, as He claims, why continue with the GOP bashing and not just pass the thing?
 
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