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Thread: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

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    US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    'We're pinned down:' 4 U.S. Marines die in Afghan ambush | McClatchy
    U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village.

    "We are pinned down. We are running low on ammo. We have no air. We've lost today," Marine Maj. Kevin Williams, 37, said through his translator to his Afghan counterpart, responding to the latter's repeated demands for helicopters.

    Three Americans and 19 Afghans were wounded, and U.S. forces later recovered the bodies of two insurgents, although they believe more were killed.

    "This is unbelievable. We have a platoon (of Afghan army) out there and we've got no Hotel Echo," Swenson shouted above the din of gunfire, using the military acronym for high explosive artillery shells. "We're pinned down."
    Please read the article fully, this has been a pattern on the Afghan front.

    Under command of the new administration, the US military's hands are tied. The new appointed Military leaders have protocol that, bluntly, chooses foreign civilians lives over those of our own troops.

    If any of you don't think Obama's administration is to blame for the recent death toll in Afghanistan, think again.

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Before we jump to too many conclusions, there are some things to note.

    Several U.S. officers said they suspected that the insurgents had been tipped off by sympathizers in the local Afghan security forces or by the village elders, who announced over the weekend that they were accepting the authority of the local government.

    "Whatever we do always leaks," said Marine Lt. Ademola Fabayo, 28, a New Yorker who was born in Nigeria and is the operations officer for the trainers from the 3rd Marine Division. "You can't trust even some of their soldiers or officers."
    This is the key section of the report. If the enemy knows what you are going to do, you are screwed.

    Secondly, there is no evidence that the commanders chose civilian lives over the lives of troops. All we are told in the article is that helicopters and HE and smoke artillery where unavailable, but that WP was available, and used. We do not know why and there are a number of reasons possible, with logistic troubles probably topping the list.

    This is a tragic story, and to twist it to serve a political purpose is vile.

    Also, please read the BN news rules, your thread title is supposed to match the article headline.

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Before we jump to too many conclusions, there are some things to note.



    This is the key section of the report. If the enemy knows what you are going to do, you are screwed.

    Secondly, there is no evidence that the commanders chose civilian lives over the lives of troops. All we are told in the article is that helicopters and HE and smoke artillery where unavailable, but that WP was available, and used. We do not know why and there are a number of reasons possible, with logistic troubles probably topping the list.

    This is a tragic story, and to twist it to serve a political purpose is vile.

    Also, please read the BN news rules, your thread title is supposed to match the article headline.
    Ok, you missed the point, NEW RESTRICTIONS resulted a lack in EFFECTIVE ARTILLERY FIRE on targets with no chance of collateral damage. If we blew those suckers up like we were previously allowed to do these great people most likely WOULDN'T HAVE DIED.

    Don't forget:
    "Whatever we do always leaks," said Marine Lt. Ademola Fabayo, 28, a New Yorker who was born in Nigeria and is the operations officer for the trainers from the 3rd Marine Division. "You can't trust even some of their soldiers or officers."
    This is a common pattern throughout the war, but our advanced weaponry has balanced these complications... until now.
    Last edited by MikeVFF; 09-13-09 at 01:40 PM.

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Ok, you missed the point, NEW RESTRICTIONS resulted a lack in EFFECTIVE ARTILLERY FIRE on targets with no chance of collateral damage. If we blew those suckers up like we were previously allowed to do these great people most likely WOULDN'T HAVE DIED.
    But innocent civilians, including children and the elderly, would've.
    And that's unacceptable.
    And my son is in the army, so don't tell me I don't care about the troops.
    Our troops are compassionate and brave, and wouldn't want innocent civilians blown up, even if it might make their jobs safer and easier.
    Last edited by 1069; 09-13-09 at 01:58 PM.

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    But innocent civilians, including children and the elderly, would've.
    And that's unacceptable.
    And my son is in the army, so don't tell me I don't care about the troops.
    Our troops are compassionate and brave, and wouldn't want innocent civilians blown up, even if it might make their jobs safer and easier.
    AHAHAHA

    You didn't even read the article, OR MY POST.

    The targets were nowhere near the Village. And I'm sorry, when civilians are supplying the forces with ammunition, picking up guns and engaging our troops, and delivering said ammunition, are they really civilians?

    And I would gladly give 10 civilian lives for 1 of our soldiers, but thats just me, I'm a heartless bastard.
    Last edited by MikeVFF; 09-13-09 at 02:04 PM.

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeVFF View Post
    Ok, you missed the point, NEW RESTRICTIONS resulted a lack in EFFECTIVE ARTILLERY FIRE on targets with no chance of collateral damage. If we blew those suckers up like we were previously allowed to do these great people most likely WOULDN'T HAVE DIED.

    Nothing in the article you linked supports that point. The article only states that HE and smoke rounds where not available, but the WP was.

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Nothing in the article you linked supports that point. The article only states that HE and smoke rounds where not available, but the WP was.
    Please read the first 2 lines of the OP's quote

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeVFF View Post
    Please read the first 2 lines of the OP's quote
    We walked into a trap, a killing zone of relentless gunfire and rocket barrages from Afghan insurgents hidden in the mountainsides and in a fortress-like village where women and children were replenishing their ammunition.

    "We will do to you what we did to the Russians," the insurgent's leader boasted over the radio, referring to the failure of Soviet troops to capture Ganjgal during the 1979-89 Soviet occupation.
    OK, nothing there to support your claim.

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    OK, nothing there to support your claim.
    U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village.
    Are you literally blind to truth?

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeVFF View Post
    Are you literally blind to truth?
    What's the truth? That if we accept high levels of collateral damage and kill a lot of innocent civilians, our troops will be safer?
    Nobody's "blind" to that fact. We know it's true.
    We just aren't going to do it anymore.

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