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Thread: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

  1. #21
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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    The US Military is NOT a police force.

    Too bad our soldiers and Marines will have to die for Bobo and his misconception and mishandling of the situation.
    I came into this world fighting, screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem going out the same way.

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The truth is, the welfare of our soldiers, specifically their lives and their morale take priority over any other variable on the battlefield.
    By that measure, we should just evac the troops and glass the country.

    Remember that the soldiers are there to do a job. The restrictions are on them to ensure that we aren't doing this job 50 years from now.

    Killing civilians is not the way to get the Afghans to tolerate us.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by a777pilot View Post
    Too bad our soldiers and Marines will have to die for Bobo and his misconception and mishandling of the situation.
    Care to explain how current Afghanistan is any better then it was under Bush?

    Or are you going to be a hypocrite?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    what are the new RoEs for arty? sounds like we're playing right into the hands of the taliban.

    If the new RoEs were being "properly" followed in this situation then they need to be seriously reconsidered--preferably by someone who knows what the hell they're doing.

    There's no reason steel rain shouldn't have been used:

    1. they were pinned down under a high volume of fire, obviously a planned ambush (with probable collusion from the villagers)

    2. the point of impact would not have been in the village

    3. with CAS down, they had no other option
    Last edited by other; 09-13-09 at 10:25 PM.

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    By that measure, we should just evac the troops and glass the country.

    Remember that the soldiers are there to do a job. The restrictions are on them to ensure that we aren't doing this job 50 years from now.

    Killing civilians is not the way to get the Afghans to tolerate us.
    no civilians would've been killed in this situation, arty should have been employed.
    Last edited by other; 09-13-09 at 10:25 PM.

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    no civilians would've been killed in this situation, arty should have been employed.
    Based on what the article said. Does anyone have an report by the military or something higher up.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Based on what the article said. Does anyone have an report by the military or something higher up.
    I think it's pretty clear from the first hand account (from the embedded reporter), that the army cpt wasn't targeting civilians. The amount of firepower they were up against implied large numbers of dug-in enemies, with crew-served weapons too.

  8. #28
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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Care to explain how current Afghanistan is any better then it was under Bush?

    Or are you going to be a hypocrite?
    It's not. It's the same year in and year out. But our military has to be able to wage war the way it knows how to do. When our military excursions become politicized, the result is always far more death than need be. We have a history of this. Fallujah II was a result of the media's exaggerations over Fallujah I. To place perspective on this....

    - Vietnam saw the media dictate the outcome of a war.

    - Iraq saw the media dictate the outcome of a battle (Fallujah I).

    Today the media's dictating military decisions and encouraging restrictions to our politicians more than ever. This trend is a guarantee to our military that failure is the only product.

    MSgt
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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    It's not. It's the same year in and year out.
    Agreed. Some people choose to ignore this.

    But our military has to be able to wage war the way it knows how to do. When our military excursions become politicized, the result is always far more death than need be. We have a history of this. Fallujah II was a result of the media's exaggerations over Fallujah I. To place perspective on this....

    - Vietnam saw the media dictate the outcome of a war.

    - Iraq saw the media dictate the outcome of a battle (Fallujah I).

    Today the media's dictating military decisions and encouraging restrictions to our politicians more than ever. This trend is a guarantee to our military that failure is the only product.
    Then why hasn't Iraq been a total failure as that was really the first war of the 21st century to be fully covered almost minute to minute? I think you place way too much emphasis on media rather than things like economic development that are key towards eliminating insurgencies.

    IMO, Afghanistan is a waste of time because there aren't any realistic economic development paths it can take. Which apparently is the fundamental basis of why my old former marine teacher explicitly stated from the very beginning as to why Afghanistan will fail. Without development, we're going to be fighting this war forever.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #30
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    Re: US Marine and Afghan forces lose many due to lack of support...

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    By that measure, we should just evac the troops and glass the country.

    Remember that the soldiers are there to do a job. The restrictions are on them to ensure that we aren't doing this job 50 years from now.

    Killing civilians is not the way to get the Afghans to tolerate us.
    And, that logic is exactly what is going to insure that this last 50 years, unless an abundant amount of US soldiers die, the current leadership gets squeemish and we tuck tail-n-run.

    The problem that I see you folks having, is that you believe that the Afghans are only going to blame American troops for the collateral damage; that they're too stupid to realize that the enemy is using them as human shields.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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