Last edited by TOJ; 09-20-09 at 02:30 PM.
Afghanistan is not Iraq. Iraq was always going to result in what we see today. If the Rumsfeld coven had listened to the military experience screaming in their ears, today's Iraq would have come in 2005 with far less internal slaughter. And despite the impratical conditions and demands for how "victory" was to be defined from the media and the stupid Democrats, Iraq was never going to be Vermont. But the relative success we see in Iraq, despite the medias cheer for ultimate failure, marks our efforts complete.
Afghanistan is not set up civlizationaly for anything remotely like what we see in Iraq. Instead of dealing with two distinct major tribes like we were in Iraq, we are dealing with literally hundreds of clans that are as corrupt towards each other as their government is to all of them. "Nation Building" is not practical. "Winning the hearts and minds" from people who were bred to hate you and hold everything you do in contempt is also impossible.
It's time to bring an old tool, which served great nations rather well in the past, forward. The "Punitive Strike" is perfectly suited for this region. If they cannot lift themselves out of their self designed opppresion and failure and they cannot allow outsiders to give them a leg up, then they are hopeless. Punishing our enemy in this region from afar is what they leave us with in terms of protecting ourselves from their human waste.
An enemy in our midst would be hunted down and punished by our own people. Our civilization will not abide religious tyrants, serial killers, militant militias, and cults even as our media looks to brand our government and civil protectors as the enemy. This is not the case for others who allow their rabble to exist, organize, and exercise their terror locally and internationally. If the Middle Eastern Arab governments condemn Islamic terrorist attacks and we are to believe that their people do the same, then where are the great Arab armies fighting along side us to rid their civilizations of their own creations? Where is the Arab media really condemning the Arab orchestrated slaughter in Sudan? Or the condemnation of Arab instigated violence in Iraq instead of blaming their blood thirsty culture on the American powers that freed them from the dictator? Do even Muslims believe that they deserve nothing more than brutality and oppression to behave?
The lesson here that we should all learn is that at the heart of matters people are not the same all over as you suggest. For all our errors, we did give Iraqis a unique chance to build a rule-of-law democracy. But they preferred for years to indulge in old hatreds, confessional violence, ethnic bigotry, and a culture of corruption (Perhaps they are merely on break right now). According to the behaviors of Muslims themselves, they need a good old fashioned dictator to keep them in check. They need a foriegn devil to blame for everything in order to ignore the Bashirs, Husseins, Ahmenadejads. They need an American military to hate and criticize in order to ignore the Al-Quedas, Tali-Bans, Hezbollahs, etc. In the end, people get the governments they deserve.
Using hypothetics to rationalize a place where we can all hug each other and get along serves nobody any justice.
Last edited by MSgt; 09-20-09 at 02:30 PM.
I imagine most American women would probably accept such treatment, even defend it with their very lives against foreign invaders wishing to change it, if it were the status quo and if it were all anyone had ever known.
There might be a few who didn't like it; those few would either find a way to escape the culture in which it was the norm, or they'd be subjugated eventually.
Not until there is an overwhelming majority of them wanting it to change, will it change.
Outside "forces" will not be able to force lasting change on those who do not want it or are not ready for it.
Women are still oppressed even here in the US. But we love our daddies and husbands, brothers and sons.
Imagine how ferociously we'd fight for the status quo- even though it renders us inferior to men- if martians suddenly landed and began trying to force change upon us.
In Afghanistan, we are talking about a population which is largely very poor and uneducated; both the men and the women. Tradition is what they have.
Last edited by 1069; 09-20-09 at 02:34 PM.
We actually have to send our troops in to fight! Oh my!
I'm sure this Muslim' kids Father will understand your argument that bombing civilians to get at "terrorists" is ethical and moral.
Last edited by dragondad; 09-20-09 at 02:46 PM.
There can be no denying that the American casualty rate in Afghanistan has seen a steep increase lately, and may increase even more.
That's no laughing matter.
But the soldiers who do come home may come home without the blood of innocents on their hands, and that's nothing to take lightly. That's a gift, bought at the expense of their own safety.
And it's what I wish for all of them, including my son.
1- Complete ban on women's work outside the home, which also applies to female teachers, engineers and most professionals. Only a few female doctors and nurses are allowed to work in some hospitals in Kabul.
2- Complete ban on women's activity outside the home unless accompanied by a mahram (close male relative such as a father, brother or husband).
3- Ban on women dealing with male shopkeepers.
4- Ban on women being treated by male doctors.
5- Ban on women studying at schools, universities or any other educational institution. (Taliban have converted girls' schools into religious seminaries.)
6- Requirement that women wear a long veil (Burqa), which covers them from head to toe.
7- Whipping, beating and verbal abuse of women not clothed in accordance with Taliban rules, or of women unaccompanied by a mahram.
8- Whipping of women in public for having non-covered ankles.
9- Public stoning of women accused of having sex outside marriage. (A number of lovers are stoned to death under this rule).
10- Ban on the use of cosmetics. (Many women with painted nails have had fingers cut off).
11- Ban on women talking or shaking hands with non-mahram males.
12- Ban on women laughing loudly. (No stranger should hear a woman's voice).
13- Ban on women wearing high heel shoes, which would produce sound while walking. (A man must not hear a woman's footsteps.)
14- Ban on women riding in a taxi without a mahram.
15- Ban on women's presence in radio, television or public gatherings of any kind.
16- Ban on women playing sports or entering a sport center or club.
17- Ban on women riding bicycles or motorcycles, even with their mahrams.
18- Ban on women's wearing brightly colored clothes. In Taliban terms, these are "sexually attracting colors."
19- Ban on women gathering for festive occasions such as the Eids, or for any recreational purpose.
20- Ban on women washing clothes next to rivers or in a public place.
21- Modification of all place names including the word "women." For example, "women's garden" has been renamed "spring garden".
22- Ban on women appearing on the balconies of their apartments or houses.
23- Compulsory painting of all windows, so women can not be seen from outside their homes.
24- Ban on male tailors taking women's measurements or sewing women's clothes.
25- Ban on female public baths.
26- Ban on males and females traveling on the same bus. Public buses have now been designated "males only" (or "females only").
27- Ban on flared (wide) pant-legs, even under a burqa.
28- Ban on the photographing or filming of women.
29- Ban on women's pictures printed in newspapers and books, or hung on the walls of houses and shops.
I guess you would know more about this than I as you (at least I think) are a USA woman, although it cerainly is sad.
Why? What do you think we'd do about it?I find it hard to believe USA woman would accept most of the following...
Women here are born the same as women there.
People will accept what they're raised with, especially when they aren't educated and know nothing else, and are largely taken up with such daily concerns as survival and keeping their children alive.
Women who have no control over whether or when to have children or how many to have care little about other personal freedoms.
This is seen in developing nations all over the planet.
"Equality" would be a farce under such circumstances; they are not equal.
They will always be the slaves of men, and their shackles will be their children.
Last edited by 1069; 09-20-09 at 03:01 PM.
This means civilians will be caught in the fray.
Last edited by MSgt; 09-20-09 at 03:02 PM.