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Thread: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

  1. #71
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    I wanted to address the comments on low income families separately as I believe though affected by the increase in imports over the last 40 or so years it has not been from the reason or reasons addressed in the original post.

    First and foremost we need to discuss the very real fact that losses in manufacturing jobs and especially the better paying ones and including the union effect and members etc have greatly and negatively impacted income levels of the American worker in general.

    Not only have more Americans joined the ranks of poverty and the working poor etc. but there are also the all the other workers who used to work for companies that produced the products that the other workers used to purchase before being unemployed or even under employed.

    One thing that complicates it all is that there seems to be a large difference of opinion on just what "low income" is, and so many have come to value their success or quality of life based on the accumulation of so many of the worthless third world nation imports (flat screens etc), far too few base this on opportunity or quality time with their families, or even being able to afford to have the mother of their children actually be able to avoid having to work and actually raise their children instead of some government concern.

    Think that is interesting then just consider that though there was all kinds of talks of hope during the recent presidential election there has been an obvious reduction in the real hope of those trapped in poverty and on government services as there are seriously lower employment opportunities available that actually offer an improvement in income or quality of life over that already supplied by the government.

    When there are not enough good paying low level jobs due to losses in manufacturing there are just not many options available to those people who are able to enjoy a higher quality of life by not working rather than giving up their current situation for minimum wage employment that may not even be available long term due to the very real potential of the company closing due to foreign imports and competition.

    We can ignore the obvious all we like, but the way we chose to accept the facts does not change those facts, and those who are and have been selling us all down the river while profiting at an ever increasing level need to be corrected, and the destruction of our middle and working class stopped immediately before it brings down our entire system.
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    It doesn't work that way, champ. Throwing up a tariff is cutting your nose of to spite your face. And just how do you "go after" a company that outsorces? Do you propose to hold a gun to the CEO's head until he brings jobs back to the US?

    The only thing your idea would do is punish the American consumer. It wouldn't put anyone back to work.
    Not sure I follow this thinking 100%.

    Lets take the tariff to a slightly different level and make it equal to the difference in the cost of labor in the two countries. That way the imported product would have to compete on quality, and not just on price that may be greatly influenced by government subsidies. This would create a level playing field, and though only used for argument etc it is interesting as well as what could be done domestically with the money collected.

    Remember the current problem of a totally out of balance import/export ratio did not happen over night, and there has been so much suffering by middle and working class Americans over the last 40+ years due to the related losses in US manufacturing.

    The answer or correction is going to take time to happen if it does manage to happen before America reduces the wealth of 95% of its people to a level comparable to that of the third world nations currently being exploited by the corporations profiting from their imported products.

    There is no need to use guns with our CEO's, and all it would take is to remove the increased profits from exploiting third world nations low labor costs at the cost of destroying our own manufacturing sector.

    Imports have caused so many problems that go so deep into our system that we are just now starting to see how poor many have become (what I believe is part of what is fueling the so called health care crisis due to medical care not being able to be imported, and the comparison of the reduction in wealth of the average American) and even with two family members working full time in many if not most families many can not maintain the same level of wealth and quality of life of previous generations.

    Just think things through a little deeper and see what you find.
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  3. #73
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    John Deer shut it' plants down because of the Union demands on Health Care and State and federal Payroll Tax's. They sent one of the Factory's to Mexico(No Union or State Taxs to worry about) the other two were moved to China and guess what all these tractors are now sent back to the USA.
    John Deere has NOT shut down all of it's American plants. There are still plants in Wisconsin, Illinois, and Iowa that I know of and I'm sure there are others.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  4. #74
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    So, since this would force Americans into penury, who will purchase that products they manufacture?
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    I really getting sick and tired of the Chinese inflating these issues. They need to think about patching things up with the US. The Chinese need to learn how to roll with the punches.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    John Deere has NOT shut down all of it's American plants. There are still plants in Wisconsin, Illinois, and Iowa that I know of and I'm sure there are others.
    So the federal govt missed a couple, they'll take care of that soon enough. This is all part of our new Kyoto-like process to become greener. Put all factories in China and puff all the polution over there.
    Last edited by American; 09-14-09 at 11:51 AM.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Corporate tax? Payroll tax? EPA? Lawsuits because of the Civil Rights Act? ADA?

    We make this country a very unfriendly business environment.
    Is market failure a myth? If so, can you prove it?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Now China is planning to retaliate against the United States by slapping higher tariffs on our chicken and auto parts. What a shock. What were you guys saying about saving American jobs again?

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1252...DDLETopStories
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-14-09 at 03:42 PM.
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    John Deere has NOT shut down all of it's American plants. There are still plants in Wisconsin, Illinois, and Iowa that I know of and I'm sure there are others.
    Deere still has US based operations and manufacturing, but have increased the percentage of imported products used in their product for years, and have become part of the problem as the loss to other US based manufacturing concerns due to switching to imported parts has eliminated or reduced the income of the workers at those other plants supplying Deere who were previous consumers of the products made by those buying Deere products.

    What so many seem to fail to acknowledge is that there is a domino effect to all these increases in imports, and when a single manufacturer either moves their plants overseas or changes to an imported product supplier the negative results jolt much more deeply than the immediate players.

    Changing something as simple as going with an import hardware product has ongoing effects, and other larger changes like plant closures go so deeply that they have caused the need for creation of entire new industries and jobs to replace them.

    The problem with the many replacement industries and jobs are that they are greatly government based or funded, or low paying positions.

    Everything from fast food, and credit cards, and insurance to education and banking have picked up some of the slack from jobs lost in manufacturing, but the majority of the positions do not have the same levels of income and have lead to a reduced amount of wealth, quality of life, and so many others.

    Sure all the new or replacement industries have their members who have seen large incomes and some even larger than previously possible in the manufacturing sector, but even these increases have come at a cost, and that cost is carried on the backs of the workers.

    Just the loss of union membership of the replacements have allowed workers to see reductions, and combine this with labor changes made by members or both parties supporting employers over the years and some have even made the point of comparing many of these workers to modern day slave labor or free slaves etc.

    Not that I fully buy into the whole free slave idea, but I can see why or how some could come up with it. When you consider that ultimately the purpose of workers in general is to perform the work needed to produce the various products that are offered by the employer to create a profit it is somewhat easier to realize that when there are more workers than work by an ever increasing margin the company or employer gains a large advantage which it can use to manipulate its labor costs.

    So sure Deere and many others who were once US power houses in manufacturing are still alive, and doing business in the US, but the game has changed and the value of it all is still on the decline.
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
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  10. #80
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by LennyD View Post
    Deere still has US based operations and manufacturing, but have increased the percentage of imported products used in their product for years, and have become part of the problem as the loss to other US based manufacturing concerns due to switching to imported parts has eliminated or reduced the income of the workers at those other plants supplying Deere who were previous consumers of the products made by those buying Deere products.
    Workers in plants buy a tiny portion of Deere's products. Farmers and construction companies are their main customers.

    As others have said, the cost of doing business here is out of control. You don't see manufacturing leaving the U.S. and moving to Sweden or Germany. The reason is that they have onerous business requirements there that are as bad or worse than those in the U.S. No, businesses go where they are welcome and provide the best shareholder return.

    Even within the U.S., companies move from states that are too restrictive like California, to states that are business friendly.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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