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Thread: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

  1. #41
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing - Yahoo! News







    This is really bad policy considering China owns a ton of our debt and they are about to introduce some low cost econo cars to the U.S. either this year or early next.

    All this crap does is penalize low income people in favor of union interests by raising costs on car and tires.
    I can support Obama on this. Hopefully this is just the one of many steps to protect American jobs and perhaps cause those that did leave the US to return. As a patriotic American I oppose the outsourcing of jobs and another form of globalization, we need to start making our own things and jobs should be the one thing the US does not export. Free trade is not fair trade if it cost Americans their jobs. And the only thing letting other countries make things us does is leave us at their mercy.


    This nonsense about oh poor people will not be able to buy cheap new tires or cheap new cars is hogwash. I grew up poor,my friends grew up poor. Poor people do not buy new cars when they can buy a used car nor would they go and buy a cheap new tire when they can buy a used decent name brand tire for 25-30 dollars. When poor people buy food they get the Always Save/Best Choice brands instead of the Del Monte, Bush's, Vande Camps , or the Rodeo brand/Bar+S brand hotdogs instead of the Oscar Myer or the BallPark brands. INstead of Rainbow bread then buy cheap generic grocery store brand bread. INstead of NIKE or ReeBocks shoes its pro-wings from the payless shoe store or if they do get NIKE or Reebock its either on lay-away or used from the thrift store. When poor people buy TVs they get them on lay-away or they buy them used from a pawn shop or thrift store,unless they got a tax refund.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 09-13-09 at 01:39 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Corporate tax? Payroll tax? EPA? Lawsuits because of the Civil Rights Act? ADA?

    We make this country a very unfriendly business environment.
    All of the above in New England States there was high Fuel Cost and State Payroll tax's. When the Clean Air Act was enacted it hurt the Texile Industry the most because it wouldn't allow the Companies to upgrade over a Xamount of time the EPA demanded that Texile Plants must come into complance by Xamount of time meanwhile other Industries had time to come in compliance(Auto,Aerospace,Steel,Farming), so what happen these plant closed and moved to Central America,India,China Far East Countries that had low payroll and no Enviromental laws and sent the stuff back to America.

    John Deer shut it' plants down because of the Union demands on Health Care and State and federal Payroll Tax's. They sent one of the Factory's to Mexico(No Union or State Taxs to worry about) the other two were moved to China and guess what all these tractors are now sent back to the USA.

  3. #43
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I can support Obama on this. Hopefully this is just the one of many steps to protect American jobs and perhaps cause those that did leave the US to return. As a patriotic American I oppose the outsourcing of jobs and another form of globalization, we need to start making our own things and jobs should be the one thing the US does not export. Free trade is not fair trade if it cost Americans their jobs. And the only thing letting other countries make things us does is leave us at their mercy.


    This nonsense about oh poor people will not be able to buy cheap new tires or cheap new cars is hogwash. I grew up poor,my friends grew up poor. Poor people do not buy new cars when they can buy a used car nor would they go and buy a cheap new tire when they can buy a used decent name brand tire for 25-30 dollars. When poor people buy food they get the Always Save/Best Choice brands instead of the Del Monte, Bush's, Vande Camps , or the Rodeo brand/Bar+S brand hotdogs instead of the Oscar Myer or the BallPark brands. INstead of Rainbow bread then buy cheap generic grocery store brand bread. INstead of NIKE or ReeBocks shoes its pro-wings from the payless shoe store or if they do get NIKE or Reebock its either on lay-away or used from the thrift store. When poor people buy TVs they get them on lay-away or they buy them used from a pawn shop or thrift store,unless they got a tax refund.
    There are times to criticize policies because they really don't help low income people and there are times like this when it would do nothing to bar these guys from entering the market with their products.

    China can make affordable cars that don't cost a lot of money and at the moment the under $10k new car area in somewhat bare.

    Lower quality tires are not really made in the U.S. anymore but some people need them. Policies like this don't help anyone.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    There are times to criticize policies because they really don't help low income people and there are times like this when it would do nothing to bar these guys from entering the market with their products.
    I am not saying China, India or some other country should have their products banned in the US. All I am saying is that if their products are allowed in the US it should not be at the expense of American jobs or drive away most manufacturing out of the US.


    China can make affordable cars that don't cost a lot of money and at the moment the under $10k new car area in somewhat bare.
    Unless a poor person has extremely good credit he is not even going to buy a car at $8,000. Because he or she knows where they can get a good used truck or car for under a $2,000.


    Lower quality tires are not really made in the U.S. anymore but some people need them. Policies like this don't help anyone.

    Used tire shops. A semi-used or used Michelin Tire for 25-35 dollars is probably much better than a cheap tire from China any day of the week.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I am not saying China, India or some other country should have their products banned in the US. All I am saying is that if their products are allowed in the US it should not be at the expense of American jobs or drive away most manufacturing out of the US.
    It depends, if the government is propping up the U.S. business with taxpayer funds and can't compete with Chinese goods on the grounds of quality then let China have them.

    Manufacturing in the U.S. isn't in decline, it's changing phases.
    I'd much rather us manufacture new high tech goods than generic goods.
    We shouldn't be keeping the old stuff just because.


    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Unless a poor person has extremely good credit he is not even going to buy a car at $8,000. Because he or she knows where they can get a good used truck or car for under a $2,000.
    It depends on what you consider poor.

    If your using government standards to rate who is and is not poor, then we can safely assume that they can purchase a new car using loans.
    The thing is though, that they should be financing lesser valued cars in order to free up their money for other needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Used tire shops. A semi-used or used Michelin Tire for 25-35 dollars is probably much better than a cheap tire from China any day of the week.
    You never know though.

    China may be able to create an affordable and moderate quality tire to compete with used tire businesses.

    We should be in the business of keeping competition instead of protectionism of jobs when they are obsolete.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It depends, if the government is propping up the U.S. business with taxpayer funds and can't compete with Chinese goods on the grounds of quality then let China have them.
    No company should be propped up with American tax dollars.

    Manufacturing in the U.S. isn't in decline, it's changing phases.
    I'd much rather us manufacture new high tech goods than generic goods.
    We shouldn't be keeping the old stuff just because.

    Low tech manufacturing jobs are not the only ones being outsourced.High tech have outsourced under the guise of being able to compete globally. If it can be produced then it can be outsourced. I wonder if those who lost their their high tech jobs to outsourcing supported outsourcing.

    All Your Computer Are Belong To Us; One more reason why Outsourcing will bit you in the a** living for the weekend

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    It depends on what you consider poor.

    If your using government standards to rate who is and is not poor, then we can safely assume that they can purchase a new car using loans.
    The thing is though, that they should be financing lesser valued cars in order to free up their money for other needs.
    I considering poor to be about $20,000 or less if you are single and no kids, $30,000 if you have kids.

    You never know though.

    China may be able to create an affordable and moderate quality tire to compete with used tire businesses.
    I would rather China not be given a chance to drive any US manufacturing company away.

    We should be in the business of keeping competition instead of protectionism of jobs when they are obsolete.
    As long as there is a demand for the products those manufacturers make then there is not such thing as a obsolete job.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 09-13-09 at 05:09 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Libman View Post
    No, government interventionism is inherently anti-competitive.
    Blanket statements are generally incorrect. Government intervention to ensure a level playing field is competitive. Basically, your argument is that if the government does nothing and lets a company use exceptionally uncompetitive practiced, including illegal ones to eliminate the capitalist framework of an economy into something very anti-competitive, the government's inaction is competitive. That makes no sense. You need some government regulation to ensure that parties within the capitalist market will not change the framework into something like favoring a few parties or a single party. Furthermore, you need regulation to ensure fair and honest disclosure. Both are government interventions that are pro-competitiveness.

    Selling a product at a loss is a dangerous business maneuver that can backfire.
    But it is also anti-competitive. Reducing prices to eliminate competition and then artificially rising them above prereduction prices is not capitalism.

    It also benefits the consumers. This isn't the 19th century - when the "dumper" runs out of money, the competitive environment can be restored rather quickly.
    Explain to me how you do that when the government of a country is subsidizing the loss.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    What really pisses me off is that China regularly manipulates its currency and its markets, and even uses child and slave labor to gain unfair economic advantage in world markets. And they dare to whine that the US is being unfair?

    If China wants a trade war, then bring it on. We would win it in the first few minutes by employing a very effective weapon - Defaulting on our debt.
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    What really pisses me off is that China regularly manipulates its currency and its markets
    Technically every country does this. There really is no way not to do this unless you get rid of your central bank and don't make economic legislation and eliminate all tax credits and deductions based on business. Every time the fed changes rates, it is manipulating the currency and market. Every time you make a tax cut or run deficits, you're manipulating the currency and market.

    Remember that the US manipulates the market, especially in defense contracting merely by how the cost/payment structure are done. Cost Plus accounting is essentially subsidizing large portions of our economy. I suspect that the lawsuit Airbus filed over US subsidies to Boeing are likely to be proven true (as the lawsuit we filed against Airbus). We all do this.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    [...] Government intervention to ensure a level playing field is competitive. [...]
    Punishing the winners and rewarding the losers is just as anti-competitive as intervening the other way around.


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    [...] Reducing prices to eliminate competition and then artificially rising them above prereduction prices is not capitalism.
    Dumping does not eliminate competition, it postpones it - while you're losing money your competitors are allocating their money toward something else. This only makes sense in industries that use contractual obligations to ensure consumer loyalty, in which case it's a matter of consumer choice (cheaper rates now vs the ability to switch companies later).

    Initiating aggression (i.e. government intervention) is "not capitalism". Everything else is fair play.


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Explain to me how you do that when the government of a country is subsidizing the loss.
    If China wants to give away money indefinitely, that's their business. It would then make more sense for the American companies to focus on things that China isn't dumping, and make profits while China continues to operate at a loss - until they decide to raise their prices and American companies can compete with them again.


    "When the opponent expand, I contract,
    When he contracts, I expand,
    And when there is an opportunity,
    I do not hit - it hits all by itself."

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