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Thread: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Before you march off to your local town hall, consider the facts. It could save you from yourself. Ricardian Model
    Thanks for the info on the Ricardian Model but that was not where I was intending to be going etc. Sorry if my reference to dumping duties, or difference in labor costs between first and third world nations misled etc.

    Since I am not debating the logic, or theory of any previous trade beliefs, but rather am addressing the negative effects that I have been able to see personally and know well etc I am going to stick with that of which I am more knowledgeable of.

    One thing that is obvious is the serious negative effects of so many years of trade imbalance that go right down to the core of our system and people.

    Consider a ride through the most successful industrial states of the past century and tell everyone what you think of what you find.

    Let us know your thoughts on the decaying buildings and infrastructure, resulting ranks of homeless those on government services, and all the other related negative results of our our of control imports.

    I have not witnessed it directly but I understand that even the areas where many companies had originally moved production to in order to take advantage of reduced labor and environmental costs like South Carolina etc are actually seeing the same problems of the industrial or rust belt states, and share the empty buildings, job loss, and other results of losses to manufacturing from the imbalance in imports.

    Also the town hall reference was meant to address the length of properly writing out full thoughts, and the benefit of being able to discuss directly in person as well as totally sarcastic.
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Ya, I figured that maybe Obama could've learned a lesson from Bush. Anyone remember when Bush implemented those steel tariffs in the first year of his administration against the advice of all his economic advisers, then had to embarrassingly remove them a few years later when it became obvious that his advisers were correct?

    Obama would do well to heed that lesson, rather than making exactly the same mistake again.
    The worst thing was that dumping wasn't even occurring. And apparently flaws and impurities in the US protected steel spiked. Imagine that. We should take stands against dumping when it occurs, hence I'm for this action if there was dumping.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by dragondad View Post
    What a sad thread.

    Is there anything that Obama can do where he will not be attacked from the right?

    Hell! They'll even take the Communist Chinese side of the issue if it will score them poltical points.

    Nevermind this particular tariff is fully legal under international trade rules when a country is being flooded with cheap imports.

    When are you white middle aged, midlle class men going to start sticking up for yourself and your kids?
    I am not completely convinced these are all attacks, but rather just people speaking their mind, and that could be part of the issue too.

    Point is that there seems to be a point that we go from learning new information to believing it, and for some there is just no turning back. Case in point is how so many will defend either side of this with such passion while never having any empathy for those and their beliefs on the other side.

    Just as much as closing our borders completely to imports would not work all that well, leaving things they way they are is also obviously not working all that well either.

    The answer very likely just like most times is sitting out there in the middle ground some place, and hopefully after the extremes are done beating each other up they will all find their way to that answer.

    And far as those white middle class men you mention are concerned it would seem many of them have been misled to the belief that any restriction on imports will result in the demise of our country.

    Oh and are they not also those so often looked at as racists, homophobes, and the ones clinging to their guns and religion
    Last edited by LennyD; 09-15-09 at 12:29 AM. Reason: mistype
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by LennyD View Post
    There is no need to use guns with our CEO's, and all it would take is to remove the increased profits from exploiting third world nations low labor costs at the cost of destroying our own manufacturing sector.
    How do you propose to do that?

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by dragondad View Post
    When are you white middle aged, midlle class men going to start sticking up for yourself and your kids?
    Race card = FAIL.

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    China has lent out its hands to help us. We respond by making it hard to do business in this country?

    It makes me question who the a-holes really are. I don't think it's China.
    Well, while I am against any protectionist actions on the part of the United States, China is not buying U.S. T-Bills to help us out, they do it because its a safe investment for them.
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    How do you propose to do that?
    Coronado it seems we have accepted so many different taxes that by the time you manage to figure it all out (something I am not even sure if possible with 100% accuracy) and you include the taxes that become part of the price of the products we buy, and additional taxes on items or dollars already taxed before, and it goes on and on, and it would not be too difficult to create serious incentives for US manufacturing plants.

    Not sure I would support going to the extremes with this style, but some combination of reasonable import duties combined with savings from reductions in government waste and corruption etc could easily offset the costs of US based production.

    Since so much of the burden of running the country and all the related corruption from our two party system has fallen directly or been diverted to the working class tax payers (nearly to the point of bursting the bubble too) it would have great promise for all.

    I am not sure I said that exactly right so let me know if I need to clear anything up etc.
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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by LennyD View Post
    Thanks for the info on the Ricardian Model but that was not where I was intending to be going etc. Sorry if my reference to dumping duties, or difference in labor costs between first and third world nations misled etc.
    You are stating people are worse off, i am saying no....

    Since I am not debating the logic, or theory of any previous trade beliefs, but rather am addressing the negative effects that I have been able to see personally and know well etc I am going to stick with that of which I am more knowledgeable of.
    Such as?

    One thing that is obvious is the serious negative effects of so many years of trade imbalance that go right down to the core of our system and people.
    Which is?

    Consider a ride through the most successful industrial states of the past century and tell everyone what you think of what you find.
    You are not giving any clear examples. But do tell, how many Graphic designers, desktop publishers, NET Java developers, SQL database administrators, or motion graphics specialists were employed in 1995? Do you think the number of occupational, physical, and speech therapists increased in that time?

    Let us know your thoughts on the decaying buildings and infrastructure, resulting ranks of homeless those on government services, and all the other related negative results of our of control imports.
    The US economy has shifted towards a serviced based economy. The difference is, American consumers pay less for consumption goods while real income has increased since the 80's (the last time we had a current account surplus).



    I have not witnessed it directly but I understand that even the areas where many companies had originally moved production to in order to take advantage of reduced labor and environmental costs like South Carolina etc are actually seeing the same problems of the industrial or rust belt states, and share the empty buildings, job loss, and other results of losses to manufacturing from the imbalance in imports.
    Yet we would expect a massive increase in the poverty rate, if what you are saying is correct. Actually, we would see an increase, although that is really the case. Barring for the current recession, the poverty rate has actually decreased since 1959 (and 1980, right around the beginning of a successive current account deficits.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by dragondad View Post
    What a sad thread.

    Is there anything that Obama can do where he will not be attacked from the right?

    Hell! They'll even take the Communist Chinese side of the issue if it will score them poltical points.

    Nevermind this particular tariff is fully legal under international trade rules when a country is being flooded with cheap imports.

    When are you white middle aged, midlle class men going to start sticking up for yourself and your kids?
    I had no issue with his speech to the school kids.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: US penalizes Chinese tires, infuriating Beijing

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Like Voidwar did in defending his claim he's not pro-killing Cops?
    So he would let a gang of "cops" rape his family and burn down his house without even trying to defend himself? What a coward! I am pro-self-defense of one's natural rights, no matter what sort of uniform the people who aggress against you may wear!


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    That doesn't explain why we should just sit down and take dumping.
    No one is forcing you nor anyone else to buy Chinese products, or keeping you from entering the marketplace to compete with them.


    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    That part does crack me up up those who claim to be patriotic American. Some of these people on this thread I understand because they are globalist, globalist do not give a **** about the future or sovereignty of their country nor could they care less that American jobs are being outsourced.
    I'm not a "patriot", I am an individualist.

    You want strong government interventionism to, among other things, initiate aggression against other peoples (i.e. by restricting their ability to trade on the basis of merit) - that ideology can only be described as National Socialism (i.e. fascism)!
    Last edited by Alex Libman; 09-15-09 at 02:55 PM.

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