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Thread: Rep. Wilson Outburst Leads Senate Dems to Close Loophole in Health Reform Bill

  1. #141
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    Re: Rep. Wilson Outburst Leads Senate Dems to Close Loophole in Health Reform Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Sure looks like from that PDB that they knew of hijackings in the new york area and suspicious activity centered around hijackings
    Bush should have closed down all the airports and stopped all international travel. Then he should have been impeached for gross negligence of duty and his head demanded on a platter. Bush is the one who asked for the information in the memo in the first place.

    United Airlines used to give away box cutters as a marketing freebie.

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    Re: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/10/rep-wilson-outburst-leads-senate-dems-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarrow View Post
    Though I definitely agree with you that Rep. Wilson's comment was inappropriate, how can your conclusion based on your own suppositions bring you to the conclusion that he was inaccurate. Will or will not illegals be covered under one of the bills put forward? Does not the answer to this question prove Rep. Wilson accurate?
    Well, I have addressed this several times. Illegal immigrants ARE CURRENTLY covered with access to emergency rooms, as indeed are our uninsured.

    There is nothing in any version of the bills that would expand inurance coverage to illegal aliens. In effect, as emergent care in both human and necessary to prevent the outbreak of serious contagions, etc., this emergent care would be maintained.

    If Mr. Wilson wants to strip this 'coverage', he is welcome to try. That does not make the President a liar for accurately pointing out that there is no attempt to extend coverage to illegal aliens. They will not be brought into our insurance umbrella.

    I would also ask you, as most aliens here hold jobs and pay taxes and recieve no benefits like social security, unemployment, etc., and given the proven fiscal and health benefits (particularly in regard to reducing expensive emergent care) why it would be a bad idea to extend this coverage to aliens who are paying into the system and can thus receive preventative care?

    We could also talk about making our immigration policy sensible so that immigrants can follow seasonal work and efficiently re-apply for re-entry when they return home rather than having to stay here illegally because the process is so difficult and in-efficient.

    In short, the 'alien' BS is focusing on an emotional tree and missing the forest and correlative effects and complex interactions of policies. Deliberate mis-information and deliberate and disingenious emotive calls are extremely unhelpful for functional democracy.

    I promise you, on the other side of these emotive calls are policy decisions that do not want to be publically discussed ... and they should be.

  3. #143
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    Re: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/10/rep-wilson-outburst-leads-senate-dems-

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Haven't you figured it out yet! That ilk just calls anything that they disagree with or do not understand "unconstitutional. It's a scam.
    Is that what I did, look real close.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Rep. Wilson Outburst Leads Senate Dems to Close Loophole in Health Reform Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Bush should have closed down all the airports and stopped all international travel. Then he should have been impeached for gross negligence of duty and his head demanded on a platter. Bush is the one who asked for the information in the memo in the first place.

    United Airlines used to give away box cutters as a marketing freebie.
    Doesn't change the fact that he was warned about it which was what apbst was talking about. He saw it sat on his hands, went on vacation told an aide thanks you covered your ass then a month later 9/11 happened

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    Re: Rep. Wilson Outburst Leads Senate Dems to Close Loophole in Health Reform Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Bush should have closed down all the airports and stopped all international travel. Then he should have been impeached for gross negligence of duty and his head demanded on a platter. Bush is the one who asked for the information in the memo in the first place.

    United Airlines used to give away box cutters as a marketing freebie.
    Bush should have had the Justice Dept file a lawsuit against al Qaeda.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  6. #146
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    Re: Rep. Wilson Outburst Leads Senate Dems to Close Loophole in Health Reform Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Doesn't change the fact that he was warned about it which was what apbst was talking about. He saw it sat on his hands, went on vacation told an aide thanks you covered your ass then a month later 9/11 happened
    Do you think Bill Clinton or George Bush didn't know that Bin Laden was determined to attack the US?

    Who the hell takes pilot lessons but doesn't care to learn how to land? That would have been about the only way we could have caught these guys. They did nothing illegal until they killed the pilots.

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    Re: Rep. Wilson Outburst Leads Senate Dems to Close Loophole in Health Reform Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Do you think Bill Clinton or George Bush didn't know that Bin Laden was determined to attack the US?

    Who the hell takes pilot lessons but doesn't care to learn how to land? That would have been about the only way we could have caught these guys. They did nothing illegal until they killed the pilots.
    There's a difference in approach. The Bush team didn't take Al-Qaida seriously until after 9/11. They were warned by the outgoing administration about Al-Qaida and given a plan which was trashed. The team hunting bin laden was called off.

    Yet in the 9/11 report we found that thats exactly what was happening the pilots the FBI had on radar in Florida were more interested in flying and not landing.

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    Re: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/10/rep-wilson-outburst-leads-senate-dems-

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why don't you fill us in on how Bush had enough information to know the where when and how of 9/11. Thanks in advance.
    You're arguing samantic here.

    Fact remains that although former President GW Bush didn't have specifics as to when or where an attack would take place on U.S. soil, he atleast had an indication of "how". Prudence dictates that the major airports should have been warned and allowed to plan accordingly against hijackings. It's just that simple. But very little, if anything, was done to make our airports safer against hijackings prior to 9/11.

    What could have been done differently to help prevent 9/11?

    • Tighter security screening of carry-on baggage.
    • Tighter screening of Middle-Eastern men considering that it was known of what nationality the danger would come from.
    • A mandate on closer review of passenger manifests.
    • A far more diligent review of FBI/CIA/International watch-lists.


    Of course, it's easy now to sit back and say what should have happened, but I think we all can agree that former President GW. Bush was aware of the potential danger to our airports and of the possiblity that commercial airliners would be hijacked.

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    Re: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/10/rep-wilson-outburst-leads-senate-dems-

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    Well, I have addressed this several times. Illegal immigrants ARE CURRENTLY covered with access to emergency rooms, as indeed are our uninsured.

    There is nothing in any version of the bills that would expand inurance coverage to illegal aliens. In effect, as emergent care in both human and necessary to prevent the outbreak of serious contagions, etc., this emergent care would be maintained.

    If Mr. Wilson wants to strip this 'coverage', he is welcome to try. That does not make the President a liar for accurately pointing out that there is no attempt to extend coverage to illegal aliens. They will not be brought into our insurance umbrella.

    I would also ask you, as most aliens here hold jobs and pay taxes and recieve no benefits like social security, unemployment, etc., and given the proven fiscal and health benefits (particularly in regard to reducing expensive emergent care) why it would be a bad idea to extend this coverage to aliens who are paying into the system and can thus receive preventative care?

    We could also talk about making our immigration policy sensible so that immigrants can follow seasonal work and efficiently re-apply for re-entry when they return home rather than having to stay here illegally because the process is so difficult and in-efficient.

    In short, the 'alien' BS is focusing on an emotional tree and missing the forest and correlative effects and complex interactions of policies. Deliberate mis-information and deliberate and disingenious emotive calls are extremely unhelpful for functional democracy.

    I promise you, on the other side of these emotive calls are policy decisions that do not want to be publically discussed ... and they should be.
    Holding jobs and paying taxes do not qualify individuals for health care. Like you mention, they already get emergency care and the like. If they want to buy insurance, you will get no objection here. But they don't. I invite all of those interested in this topic to visit my new thread.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/immigr...-solution.html

    I think you will find that we have a lot in common.

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