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Presidential Address

As far as illegals go it's an employer related issue. If you have zero opportunity in your home country then it makes absolute sense to go where you do have opportunity. I don't blame them for coming here. The issue will only ever be resolved by either taking away the opportunity here or creating more opportunity south of the border. Hating on them is rather pointless. Tracking them down would be futile. You have to hit the source of the problem and the source of the problem is that folks who can't make money south of the border can and easily do make money here. Cracking down on employers would seem the most feasible rational thing to do. Demonizing illegals is like demonizing a starving person who steals bread. I just don't have the heart for it.
 
You are wrong. prohibition failed & the war on drugs is a failure to.
Old political axiom:

"You can't legislate morality."

some things will always be unenforceable.

You can't compare prohibition and the war on drugs to illegal immigration as they aren't even remotely similar. And the whole illegal immigrant issue has nothing to do with morality. It has to do with the fact that there are legal ways to get into the country and people instead choose to come here illegally and get the same benefits as people who actually worked hard to become citizens. Are you okay with that?
 
As far as illegals go it's an employer related issue. If you have zero opportunity in your home country then it makes absolute sense to go where you do have opportunity. I don't blame them for coming here. The issue will only ever be resolved by either taking away the opportunity here or creating more opportunity south of the border. Hating on them is rather pointless. Tracking them down would be futile. You have to hit the source of the problem and the source of the problem is that folks who can't make money south of the border can and easily do make money here. Cracking down on employers would seem the most feasible rational thing to do. Demonizing illegals is like demonizing a starving person who steals bread. I just don't have the heart for it.

Employers that hire illegals is half the problem, IMO. There should be a major crackdown on illegal hiring.
 
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As far as illegals go it's an employer related issue. If you have zero opportunity in your home country then it makes absolute sense to go where you do have opportunity. I don't blame them for coming here. The issue will only ever be resolved by either taking away the opportunity here or creating more opportunity south of the border. Hating on them is rather pointless. Tracking them down would be futile. You have to hit the source of the problem and the source of the problem is that folks who can't make money south of the border can and easily do make money here. Cracking down on employers would seem the most feasible rational thing to do. Demonizing illegals is like demonizing a starving person who steals bread. I just don't have the heart for it.

I'm not demonizing anyone. And I'm also not speaking about Mexican illegals exclusively.

But the fact is, unlawful entry into this country is invasion of our soil and an offense to the sovereignty of our great nation. If we allow individual invaders to run roughshod over our laws, how do we expect to present ourselves as powerful enough to stop large invading forces should we need to do so?

And you are correct about one aspect: those who aid the invasion of our country by giving employment and comfort to the invaders are a serious issue. For their role, they should be subject to the same military tribunals as the invaders themselves.
 
When was the last time we sent the Marine Corps into L.A. to round up illegals?
(been at least a few months....if memory serves):lol:




non response to my question.



We use national guard on the border now, and the federal border patrol, it is not a local domestic LEO issue.
 
I'm not demonizing anyone. And I'm also not speaking about Mexican illegals exclusively.

But the fact is, unlawful entry into this country is invasion of our soil and an offense to the sovereignty of our great nation. If we allow individual invaders to run roughshod over our laws, how do we expect to present ourselves as powerful enough to stop large invading forces should we need to do so?

And you are correct about one aspect: those who aid the invasion of our country by giving employment and comfort to the invaders are a serious issue. For their role, they should be subject to the same military tribunals as the invaders themselves.

Our Statue of liberty has a plaque reading

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


I just can't see them as invaders. Clearly my brother marrying a very cute one has biased me. But still, perhaps we should make it easier and possible for those down south to immigrate legally.
 
As far as illegals go it's an employer related issue. If you have zero opportunity in your home country then it makes absolute sense to go where you do have opportunity. I don't blame them for coming here. The issue will only ever be resolved by either taking away the opportunity here or creating more opportunity south of the border. Hating on them is rather pointless. Tracking them down would be futile. You have to hit the source of the problem and the source of the problem is that folks who can't make money south of the border can and easily do make money here. Cracking down on employers would seem the most feasible rational thing to do. Demonizing illegals is like demonizing a starving person who steals bread. I just don't have the heart for it.

I am not sure how anyone can claim that wanting to enforce our border and remove illegal aliens from our country is based on "hatred."

The REAL problem we have in America is that so many of our elected officials willfully ignore illegal aliens when they come into the country. When your own government ignores it's own laws, it does indeed become a futile effort to eradicate the problem.

The nation, and particularly the State of California, relies on immigrant labor. This is particularly true with the agriculture states. What we need is reform that permits our border agents to process legal immigrants and temporary workers and places these people in a database so that potential employers can quickly look up their information to verify they are here legally.

Employers cannot be forced to be the enforcers when it is so easy to obtain a State drivers license and false SS number.

Point in case; I know of an illegal immigrant who came into this country on a legal visa. When it came time to renew/expire, he did not go back because he was afraid they would not renew his visa and he would be sent back to his native country.

For a decade now he has used the same SS number, paid taxes and worked for.....STATE Government. How hard would it have been to track this man down and expel him? But our government CHOSE to collect their taxes and ignore his legal status.

For my two cents, this man is a far better citizen than many who are rightfully born here. He should be allowed to immigrate. But how fair would it be to now suddenly decide to enforce laws that were willfully ignored by our Government for over a decade?

This is the REAL issue with immigration reform; Governments who willfully ignore our laws because they are politically afraid to enforce them and some cities, like San Fran, who openly declare themselves a "sanctuary" city?

So before we go expelling illegal immigrants, let's also properly determine how they got here, how they have been operating quasi legally, develop USEFUL (SS numbers with photo connected perhaps) internet based information systems that permit employers to quickly and easily verify legal status prior to hiring and actually start enforcing our immigration laws and sanction those cities and States that willfully choose to ignore our laws.
 
Our Statue of liberty has a plaque reading

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


I just can't see them as invaders. Clearly my brother marrying a very cute one has biased me. But still, perhaps we should make it easier and possible for those down south to immigrate legally.

Now it reads:

No Vacancies
 
Our Statue of liberty has a plaque reading

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


I just can't see them as invaders. Clearly my brother marrying a very cute one has biased me. But still, perhaps we should make it easier and possible for those down south to immigrate legally.





Thems france's words, not ours, it reflected our past and how we came to be, it was not a declarative US legacy policy. :shrug:
 
Our Statue of liberty has a plaque reading

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


I just can't see them as invaders. Clearly my brother marrying a very cute one has biased me. But still, perhaps we should make it easier and possible for those down south to immigrate legally.

What about any of that bypasses the fact that we have laws in place for legal entrance and exit from our country?

Would you even dream of trying to enter Great Britain without legal documentation? Just answer me this: if you tried to enter any other country without documentation, what do you think the response would and should be?
 
Our Statue of liberty has a plaque reading

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


I just can't see them as invaders. Clearly my brother marrying a very cute one has biased me. But still, perhaps we should make it easier and possible for those down south to immigrate legally.

I am all in favor of legal immigration. But if you are not a native, and cannot and do not respect our laws, you do not belong here.
 
What about any of that bypasses the fact that we have laws in place for legal entrance and exit from our country?

Would you even dream of trying to enter Great Britain without legal documentation? Just answer me this: if you tried to enter any other country without documentation, what do you think the response would and should be?



Hell try entering Canada.... :lol:
 
What about any of that bypasses the fact that we have laws in place for legal entrance and exit from our country?

Would you even dream of trying to enter Great Britain without legal documentation? Just answer me this: if you tried to enter any other country without documentation, what do you think the response would and should be?

I think if we made it incredibly easy to migrate here we would have such an influx that it would be like an invasion. By making it illegal but not enforcing it to any great degree we get lots of determined ambitious folks willing to risk it for a better life. Obviously we're ill prepared to handle a complete open door policy but equally obvious is that we're not willing to hunt down those who have crept in and send them packing.

As to your question if I lived in Tijuana, had no money, and mouths to feed I'd definitely risk it and attempt to come here. There are two types of desperate peoples - those that just accept their lot in life with no imagination or drive to change it and those who claw their way out of squalor to better their situation.

The fact of the matter is that your average poor uneducated Mexican who aims to just do manual labor here has little to no chance of ever getting their application through to come here legally. That's part of the problem. Hell my sister in law is having issues with her application process and she's married to a man who has testified that he will financially support her and has the means to do so.
 
I'll reprint this link from an earlier post: [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act]Posse Comitatus Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The FACT is that since June 18th 1878 ..
.The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (today the Army, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States.


This is LAW & not debatable
.
 
I am all in favor of legal immigration. But if you are not a native, and cannot and do not respect our laws, you do not belong here.

Right I get that. But at the same time there's a difference between a drug addict stealing your car stereo and a mother stealing a pie from your window sill to feed her hungry kids.

If you cannot financially support yourself where you are only the unimaginative, ignorant, foolish, unambitious dolts would stay there. Respecting our laws would leave many living in a dead end world. It's not surprising that they risk breaking immigration laws.
 
I think if we made it incredibly easy to migrate here we would have such an influx that it would be like an invasion. By making it illegal but not enforcing it to any great degree we get lots of determined ambitious folks willing to risk it for a better life. Obviously we're ill prepared to handle a complete open door policy but equally obvious is that we're not willing to hunt down those who have crept in and send them packing.

As to your question if I lived in Tijuana, had no money, and mouths to feed I'd definitely risk it and attempt to come here. There are two types of desperate peoples - those that just accept their lot in life with no imagination or drive to change it and those who claw their way out of squalor to better their situation.

The fact of the matter is that your average poor uneducated Mexican who aims to just do manual labor here has little to no chance of ever getting their application through to come here legally. That's part of the problem. Hell my sister in law is having issues with her application process and she's married to a man who has testified that he will financially support her and has the means to do so.

OK, so answer my question now: What do you think the appropriate response to an illegal entry would be in any other country? Let's just narrow it down and say...Germany, for instance.
 
OK, so answer my question now: What do you think the appropriate response to an illegal entry would be in any other country? Let's just narrow it down and say...Germany, for instance.

Germany has illegal immigrants right now. They, like most of Europe, are grappling with their own issues and how to deal with illegals from Africa. They, like us, seem torn between discussions on amnesty vs. cracking down.

Illegal Immigrants in Berlin, Germany may receive Health Care with Anonymous Insurance Card | erblawg

It's hardly a uniquely American problem. Ambitious folks simply won't remain in down trodden countries that offer zero opportunities. They will leave. It's human nature. Borders are lines drawn on a map.
 
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