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Presidential Address

jackalope said:
You presume to think a republican-circulated 'democratic whip count list' has any credibility at all

LOLOL !!!


Post it if you must, but suffer the mockery as a result. :rofl


edit - ps, I never saw any question posed, and only saw your comment now b/c your post was mercifully short. Buy yourself a paragraph. And a sentence with a period. And some proper capitalization. Maybe I'll read your thoughts next time :)
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i don't presume a thing, i posted info for anyone's benefit who's interested

read it or not, i couldn't care less

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE EXTREME ALTERATION OF LANGUAGE, AT THIS LATE HOUR, FROM PROMISING EXTENDED COVERAGE TO 47 MILLION AMERICANS TO PROMISING INSURANCE FOR 30 MILLION CITIZENS?

short enough for you, a direct question?

take care
 
akyron said:
pdfs ugh
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Here ya go from the bill itself:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
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The Prof said:
i don't presume a thing, i posted info for anyone's benefit who's interested

read it or not, i couldn't care less

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE EXTREME ALTERATION OF LANGUAGE, AT THIS LATE HOUR, FROM PROMISING EXTENDED COVERAGE TO 47 MILLION AMERICANS TO PROMISING INSURANCE FOR 30 MILLION CITIZENS?

short enough for you, a direct question?

take care
Click to expand...


he had bad information.
 
The Prof said:
by the way, jackalope, i know those 44 a whole lot better than most around here do, i've been following their every move from the beginning

we can't predict exactly how some of them will go, you're right

but it really does look very bad, your own source indicates as much

the source i cited isn't drudge, as has already been pointed out, it was the hill

no one watches congress at the district by district level closer than the hill

watch cspan

indeed, the way the wind is blowing, it's gonna be MORE than 44 who bolt

sorry
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I will buy you a drink in Lita's Tiki Bar after it passes .... hopefully you won't be too crushed at having been misinformed on the Dem 'no' votes ...
 
jackalope said:
FactCheck.org confirms there will be “no federal subsidies for you if you’re in the country illegally.”
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That must have been taken out of context, because it's already false. For example, Medicaid will pay for certain types of emergency coverage. Even if it didn't -- if they clamped down on the rules -- the costs would still be transferred to local communities supporting county hospitals.

Regardless...

We only need to compare current immigration law with the current immigration problem to know that these stupid little clauses that politicians put in bills are meaningless if not accompanied by some provision of enforcement.

We all know which party start to holler when you start trying to enforce things like immigration, voter ID, etc. etc.
 
marduc said:
Here ya go from the bill itself:
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that's very true, and that's very good

but cynics will naturally point to the defeat of heller in ways and means on july 17, yanking e-verify

i'm sorry, but whether or not illegals will be included is a huge and ongoing political issue

hence, obama's bizarre change of nomenclature this evening from 47 mil americans to 30 mil CITIZENS

it is what it is

politics

Zogby International

take care
 
jackalope said:
I will buy you a drink in Lita's Tiki Bar after it passes .... hopefully you won't be too crushed at having been misinformed on the Dem 'no' votes ...
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a rather boring response

i don't drink
 
The speech was just a bunch of propaganda BS. I actually found myself laughing at parts of it.
 
Taylor said:
That must have been taken out of context, because it's already false. For example, Medicaid will pay for certain types of emergency coverage. Even if it didn't -- if they clamped down on the rules -- the costs would still be transferred to local communities supporting county hospitals.

Regardless...

We only need to compare current immigration law with the current immigration problem to know that these stupid little clauses that politicians put in bills are meaningless if not accompanied by some provision of enforcement.

We all know which party start to holler when you start trying to enforce things like immigration, voter ID, etc. etc.
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I do not know what Medicaid does, or doesn't currently do, but the legislation under consideration specifically excludes payments of any kind to illegal aliens. There is a page reference to the bill. Stop reading the spinners and read the bill.

The ones who say that illegal aliens will get free, or even subsidized coverage, under HR3200, or any of the bills in Congress right now, are simply lying to you.
 
The Prof said:
Zogby International

take care
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did you read your link?

The version of President Obama's universal health care plan pending in the U.S. House specifically states that illegal aliens should not receive benefits, but one lawmaker believes the statement does not go far enough to stop illegals from claiming to be citizens so they can receive health benefits
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So maybe it does not go FAR enough, that is another argument. But lets look a bit more:

wait here it is here is that one lawmaker.. or wait maybe not, its just his spokesman talking to World Nut Daily

But Stuart Bybee, spokesman for Rep. Dean Heller, R-Nev., told WND restrictions on illegal alien enrollment are not clearly enforced under the House bill.
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The Prof said:
a rather boring response

i don't drink
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No caps, or periods, but .... comprehensible nonetheless!

Okay, no drink for you. But, you will be wrong regardless. The bill will pass the House, and believing some Republican-circulated lie is silly.
 
by all means, read the bill

but read heller too

you wouldn't want anyone to lie to you
 
jackalope said:
No caps, or periods, but .... comprehensible nonetheless!

Okay, no drink for you. But, you will be wrong regardless. The bill will pass the House, and believing some Republican-circulated lie is silly.
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you don't know what you're talking about
 
The Prof said:
you don't know what you're talking about
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We will see, Prof, we will see.

A vote will be held, and one of us will be right, and the other will be wrong. :cool:
 
marduc said:
did you read your link?



So maybe it does not go FAR enough, that is another argument. But lets look a bit more:

wait here it is here is that one lawmaker.. or wait maybe not, its just his spokesman talking to World Nut Daily
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regardless of the number (LOL!) of people who opined, e-verify was stripped

246 has no enforcement

i don't think anyone around here has even heard of heller

but if you haven't seen the results of that kinda open ended film making before...

why do YOU think the prez is so suddenly reconfiguring his obamacare to include 30 million CITIZENS?

it's not partisan of me to see significant signage in that kinda signaling

call me a cynic

it is perhaps partisan of anyone who might want to whistle past something so dramatically changed

to each his own
 
jackalope said:
No caps, or periods, but .... comprehensible nonetheless!

Okay, no drink for you. But, you will be wrong regardless. The bill will pass the House, and believing some Republican-circulated lie is silly.
Click to expand...

the hill is not a republican circulation

far from it
 
watch c-span

and the list is very hurtful to dems, if that's what you mean by republican-circulated

i circulated it, for example

tho i'm a rather reluctant republican

i won't quibble
 
jackalope said:
The legislation under consideration specifically excludes payments of any kind to illegal aliens.
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No, the statement you or Marduc or whoever posted only applies to Subtitle C--Individual Affordability Credits, which is not necessarily "payments of any kind to illegal aliens."

The CRS statement is not "spin" - they're referencing Subtitle A--Health Insurance Exchange, saying that illegals are not restricted from joining the exchange program (incl. public option).

Taking a leap of faith on a 1000 page bill, one might arrive at the conclusion that the only way subsidies are provided are through IACs, but that can't be said for certain unless you not only read the entire bill, but really analyze it (a job for a law firm).

Do you want to claim that there are no loopholes in the bill? The easiest way to close those would have been to state things as simply as you did, which is something they obviously decided NOT to do.

____

But again, all of that is poop. Laws are no good unless they're enforced and the Dems refuse to include enforcement provisions in the bill.
 
The Prof said:
i don't presume a thing, i posted info for anyone's benefit who's interested

read it or not, i couldn't care less

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE EXTREME ALTERATION OF LANGUAGE, AT THIS LATE HOUR, FROM PROMISING EXTENDED COVERAGE TO 47 MILLION AMERICANS TO PROMISING INSURANCE FOR 30 MILLION CITIZENS?

short enough for you, a direct question?

take care
Click to expand...

Borderline plagiarizing again, prof? Why don't you stop pretending as if you came up with this "47 to 30" right-wing talking point all by your lonesome.

Anyone who wishes to know the true source of this wacky talking point can visit (Breaking News | Latest News | Current News - FOXNews.com) and fast forward to the fourth minute of the Video, where Frank Luntz advances his ridiculous and predictable "47 to 30" attack angle, or should I say defence of Joe Wilsons total lack of decorum.

"Up until tonight it was always 47 million Americans, but they realized was that they were defending health care...going to illegal immigrants and reazlied they had to take them out of the pool. So tonight the number is no longer 47, its 30"

-Frank Luntz on Hannity

Seriously, prof, if you're gonna parrot a talking point, at least have the decency to source it out correctly and not try to pass it off as your own.

It just goes to show how utterly partisan your agenda is, that you would blantaly repeat exactly what you heard on FOX News literally moments after it is broadcasted...and not even credit the claim to its proper source.

Absolutely comical.
 
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Taylor said:
No, the statement you or Marduc or whoever posted only applies to Subtitle C--Individual Affordability Credits, which is not necessarily "payments of any kind to illegal aliens."

The CRS statement is not "spin" - they're referencing Subtitle A--Health Insurance Exchange, saying that illegals are not restricted from joining the exchange program (incl. public option).

Taking a leap of faith on a 1000 page bill, one might arrive at the conclusion that the only way subsidies are provided are through IACs, but that can't be said for certain unless you not only read the entire bill, but really analyze it (a job for a law firm).

Do you want to claim that there are no loopholes in the bill? The easiest way to close those would have been to state things as simply as you did, which is something they obviously decided NOT to do.

____

But again, all of that is poop. Laws are no good unless they're enforced and the Dems refuse to include enforcement provisions in the bill.
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The CRS statement posted in this thread is not a CRS statement, it is a press statement by FAIR, an anti-immigration group.

The section of the House bill quoted here applies to any federal monies to illegal aliens, it does not apply to only one section.

Your comment about the exchange displays a lack of knowledge about what the exchange will be - a marketplace to purchase insurance. An illegal alien is not barred from purchasing insurance in the health insurance exchange created under the bill, but they would could not purchase it with federal money. They are not eligible, under any of the bills in the House or Senate, from receiving federal money. The actual CRS statement says that. The FAIR statement does not.

Long and short, you are getting spun. There is NO money for illegal aliens under any of the bills.

The actual CRS statement - with no anti-immigrant spin:
bad link ...edited out

edit: gah, that is not the link, either. have to google it.
 
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The Prof said:
watch c-span

and the list is very hurtful to dems, if that's what you mean by republican-circulated

i circulated it, for example

tho i'm a rather reluctant republican

i won't quibble
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Republican-circulated means a republican created it, and started circulating it.
You are just passing on Republican propaganda.
 
The_Limt said:
Borderline plagiarizing again, prof? Why don't you stop pretending as if you came up with this "47 to 30" right-wing talking point all by your lonesome.

Anyone who wishes to know the true source of this wacky talking point can visit (Breaking News | Latest News | Current News - FOXNews.com) and fast forward to the fourth minute of the Video, where Frank Luntz advances his ridiculous and predictable "47 to 30" attack angle, or should I say defence of Joe Wilsons total lack of decorum.

"Up until tonight it was always 47 million Americans, but they realized was that they were defending health care...going to illegal immigrants and reazlied they had to take them out of the pool. So tonight the number is no longer 47, its 30"

-Frank Luntz on Hannity

Seriously, prof, if you're gonna parrot a talking point, at least have the decency to source it out correctly and not try to pass it off as your own.

It just goes to show how utterly partisan your agenda is, that you would blantaly repeat exactly what you heard on FOX News literally moments after it is broadcasted...and not even credit the claim to its proper source.

Absolutely comical.
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borderline?

plagiarism is plargiarism

i didn't see luntz

if i'm so dependent on luntz where's his emphasis of the word CITIZENS?

i don't even know, limit, did luntz use the word CITIZENS?

what's YOUR explanation for the president's last minute change?

or would you rather talk about ME?

and my SOURCES?

LOLOLOL!

you're reading minds again, oh, savant who knows not baucus from his butt

you do that a lot don't you, limit, read minds?

LOLOLOL!

i know you can't read c-b-o

who'd i steal GATEWAY from?

how come i know so much about energy-commerce?

probably more than luntz

LOLOL!

what did elmendorf say, limit?

where?

when?

to whom?

what did it mean?

who IS elmendorf?

why don't you KNOW any of these things?

why didn't luntz say CITIZENS?

why did i?

why should YOU care?

cuz you're now a MEDIUM?

LOLOL!

gonna do a SEANCE?

LOLOL!

maybe someone from the other side could teach you about feingold and wisconsin

maybe the spirit world can clue you in to the meaning of WHIP

LOLOLOL!

BORDERLINE plagiarism, please

as if anyone could possibly CARE

smaller and smaller your obsession becomes

extremely limited

LOLOLOL!
 
jackalope said:
Republican-circulated means a republican created it, and started circulating it.
You are just passing on Republican propaganda.
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the hill is not propaganda, jackalope

and you still haven't answered an unmistakably direct question

oh well

bottoms up

next round's on me
 
The Prof said:
the hill is not propaganda, jackalope

and you still haven't answered an unmistakably direct question

oh well

bottoms up

next round's on me
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Slowly now ....

The Republican-circulated list on the purported Democratic 'no' vote whip count is propaganda.

Thx for the drink! :beer:


ps - someone else answered your direct question. I ignored it b/c it was all caps. :mrgreen:
 
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