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Thread: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

  1. #21
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    No, you will be fined if you can afford health insurance and don't bother to get it.
    no, that's not how it works

    it fines any american caught breathing without insurance

    exactly as driving is handled in california

    if you can demonstrate that you're low earner, you can qualify for HELP

    unfortunately, 20% of $1000 a month for Ms Single Motherhood still leaves her with $800 to kaiser each moon for herself and her kids

    as usual, h-nut doesn't know what he's talking about

    during the campaign, obama said repeatedly, "fining families who can't afford health care in the first place doesn't make sense"

    but it's been a key element of waxman/rangel, hr3200, from the start

    of course, h-nut doesn't know waxman-rangel

    he doesn't know energy-commerce

    he doesn't know ways and means

    would you prefer to postulate with The hyper prepped and ultra experienced Prof pursuant to parliamentary proceeding, poser?

    he'd perceive it a pleasure

    LOLOL!

    the NEWS is that BAUCUS (here's your chance, h-nut, you can actually LEARN one of those elusive ANSWERS---LOLOL!) has now adopted the LANGUAGE OF FINES

    h-nut doesn't know what he's talking about, he passes off his thoughts as reality

    for instance, he doesn't know anything about baucus' precise role in this health care debate

    despite the fact that the montana senator, THE GATEKEEPER, is probably more important to obamacare, where rubber meets road, than the president himself

    baucus has worked his butt off for this president, but according to the overworked finance chair, "the president has not been much help"

    oh, well, BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD (an inside joke h-nut doesn't get)

    LOLOLOL!

    My Way News - Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Newsvine - A look at health care plans in Congress

  2. #22
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Umm
    From the other people who paid into the insurance plan who DON'T get hit by buses?
    Who are...? Say it with me "Taxpayers." Which means it's what kind of money? "Government." Good, now that we've established that, you can concede that the taxpayer eats the cost of my medical care regardless.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  3. #23
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Who are...? Say it with me "Taxpayers." Which means it's what kind of money? "Government." Good, now that we've established that, you can concede that the taxpayer eats the cost of my medical care regardless.
    That's just stupid. You could say the same thing about private insurance. The other members of your private insurance plan are taxpayers too. That doesn't mean "the taxpayers" are paying for it.

    A government health care plan doesn't necessarily mean that all your expenses are on the public dime. Most public plans that have been proposed involve people paying premiums and collecting health care expenses...just like private plans. The only structural difference would be subsidies for those who can't afford insurance, and those people certainly wouldn't fall into the exemption you were bitching about for people who can self-insure.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-09-09 at 01:56 AM.
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    The Dems had already planned to fine people for not carrying health insurance. This is nothing new and sure as hell isn't a Republican invention.

    I think the Dems are doing a great job of shooting themselves in the foot, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    No, you will be fined if you can afford health insurance and don't bother to get it.

    Right now, if you spend your health insurance money on a trip to Disney World or a new Plasma TV, you can just go to the emergency room and have your state foot the bill.

    People use the emergency room as their free primary care physician. Things like high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and obesity go untreated and unmonitored until a person has diabetes, heart disease, a stroke... and then guess who pays for the really expensive stuff...

    prof??

    Which would you prefer--people being responsible. People being irresponsible and letting everyone else pay for it.
    Yes. Naturally. The answer is to fine and tax people and use the excuse "because if you don't have insurance it costs the state and other people money".

    Lets ignore the fact that the reason that happens is because of regulations put in by government that require it in the first place. So essentially "Because we mucked up with something and force the hospitals to do something, we're using that as an excuse to say we have to take money from you too".

    Here's a WILD idea...

    How about instead of fining people for choosing, you know that whole freedom thing, not to purchase insurance and choosing to take that chance simply because it may cost hospitals money you remove the requirements that hospitals MUST care for people regardless of whether or not they can pay?

    ....well of course, we CAN'T do that. If we do that, then we can't have the greedy government (Remember folks, when individuals want to actually choose how to spend their hard earned money, they're greedy. When the government decides to take that money it did NOTHING to gain, they're just being "kind" and "humane" ) taking money and redistributing it to those that we think deserve it to be "FAAAAAAIR"

    I swear to god, it mystifies me sometimes. "Lets break something, and then, once its broke, use the fact its broke as a reason to do even MORE"

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That's just stupid. You could say the same thing about private insurance. The other members of your private insurance plan are taxpayers too. That doesn't mean "the taxpayers" are paying for it.
    Not the same thing. With private insurance everyone who has private insurance is agreeing to this and are free to leave it any time they wish. Forcing tax payers to pick up the tab and people voluntarily getting insurance are two separate things.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    You specifically said the cost me having to go visit the ER after getting hit by a bus would NOT be paid by the taxpayer because of my premiums. If my premium doesn't cover it all, where is the rest of the insurance money going to come from?
    everyone else's premiums. next question?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    I need to find a third party I really agree with. I'm at a loss right now and have been avoiding political discussions almost entirely because of how things have been going in Washington.

    The man I voted for has been completely disappointing to me. The Congress has followed his lead in their decision to leave the American people high and dry.

    Sadly I am now of the opinion that my vote was wasted. And it would have been wasted no matter who I voted for.
    *insert profound statement here*

  9. #29
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Dems had already planned to fine people for not carrying health insurance. This is nothing new and sure as hell isn't a Republican invention.

    I think the Dems are doing a great job of shooting themselves in the foot, though.
    that is a very good point, friend, the FACT of fines has been central to waxman-rangel, hr3200, since its inception

    check out the date on the AP source i linked a couple posts up

    it's stunning how little is known about what they say by some of the good folk who do so much talking in this forum

    the FINES are NOT news

    (except that BAUCUS embraced em, yesterday, ie, the SENATE)

    word is OUT already on what the prez is gonna do TONITE

    his entire presidency rides on tonite, we all know, as he addresses joint session summoned by himself to announce his NEW APPROACH

    y'know, the FINAL strategy underlying the obamacare push, the one axelrod and gibbs were UNABLE to articulate as recently as sunday cuz leadership STILL had not determined exactly what the heck it wanted to do

    shocking how IMPROVISATIONAL---and ADMITTEDLY so---is this admin concerning the comprehensive distribution of SIXTEEN PERCENT of the us economy

    not to mention, the health and well being of all legal and illegal americans

    why, we're still working on it, we don't want to commit ourselves, don't want to rule anything out---gibbs and axelrod both are OPEN about their still half-cooked status on mtp and this week with stephy

    well, word's out early on their FINAL "new approach"

    it's the OLD one---hr3200

    no triggers

    no co ops

    public option is IN

    baucus gave his SIX til 10am this morning

    LOLOLOL!

    there ya go

    hurry hurry hurry is the hark

    next up---3200 hits the floor of pelosi's place

    it's gonna have a LOT of trouble

    it will either win by a very few votes or lose by very few

    23 dems (or something like that) have already said no

    she can afford to lose 39, or so

    mike ross, bluedog leader, added his NAY subsequent

    makes 24+

    either way, she might clear HOUSE

    but upstairs is gonna be impossible

    pelosi/obama might try for reconciliation, it now looks like

    hurry hurry hurry

    obama characteristically CAVED to pelosi in private meeting yesterday

    obama always caves to pelosi

    seniors are gonna REVOLT

    mccaskill's HEAD is on THE BLOCK

    as well as two dozen others

    smart money is NO WAY can they get it thru on reconciliation

    but they might

    if they do, it's the end of the party

    3200 is extremely unpopular, problematic

    and for more reasons than just the fines

    it cuts medicare and medicaid half a tril

    it includes illegals, in that e-verify was specifically stripped (heller amendment)

    it generalizes abortion

    it taxes small biz

    it "surcharges" upper incomes

    it bends the COST CURVE the wrong way, significantly, said cbo---this is a BIGGIE, the actuarial underpinning of obamacare at its conception

    it taxes benefits, ala john mccain

    but, most in the gut TODAY, NOW, because politics is in the gut---it is PERCEIVED as foot in the door incrementalism to eventual total nationalization

    that is, the buzzy issue going forward from here is gonna be---privates are gonna be driven under by being forced to compete with a subsidized public rival

    hr3200 is a PIG, and that aint politics

    well, at least obama FINALLY made up his mind

    wed morning, early am, 12 hours before HIS deadline

    LOLOLOL!

    good luck with it, folks

  10. #30
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Well, We should have expexcted some kind of crap like this for thinking that politicians could fix something. Now we will get a gutted health plan that you will be fined for if you do not want it.

    Anybody know what the status will be for illegal aliens coming up over the border to have babies born in US hospitals? Or any other medical procedure that may be required for illegals for that matter. Or is that ok to be paid for with the taxpayers dime? They damn sure ain't going to have any insurance.

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