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Thread: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Who is playing a game? You asked a question, i answered, and yet you mistake my response as agreeing with you.
    There was no mistake.

    You SAID that you AGREE that you cannot criminalize not having insurance.

    That's all that needs to be said.

    Now, you can keep trolling if you want, but it wont change anything.

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Mmkay I have a question. In Texas if one drives w/o car insurance they are fined in criminal court with possible jail ans confiscation of property then a surcharge is added to ones DL. In the scheme of things how could this be a tax and not a fine?
    Under this premise, it is illegal not to drive without car insurance. Therefore they are breaking a law. Fines or jail time are then handed out when someone breaks the law. This does not hold the tax = fine due to criminality, which would be one of my axioms in the mathematical proof.

    While agreeing with Goobie that you cannot criminalize the act of not obtaining health care, you can fine people under the disguise of taxation. The criminality aspect is then shifted, which i will get to in a second.

    Could we tax people who do not purchase car insurance? I suppose it is very possible, in the same fashion as when you go to purchase your plates. The trouble is this, if they are unwilling to pay for insurance, they will most likely be unwilling to pay the tax on driving without insurance.

    I am also assuming that the social cost < private benefit, so much to the point where it is actually more efficient to keep it illegal.

    Health care is an entirely different animal. By taxing the behavior, we then shift the "breaking the law" to reflect actually breaking the law via not paying your taxes.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    There was no mistake.
    I agreed that you should not criminalize the act, but you can tax it.

    You have yet to discuss the taxation aspect. Yes goobie that direction is not west. But what direction is it?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I agreed that you should not criminalize the act
    Yes, that's my POSITION.

    What I presnted here, since you've been more interesting in childish trolling than paying attention, is NOT that you CANNOT criminalize the act, but if you do, then you MUST then arrest, arraign and try the people in question in order to levy the fine -- somethign I have not seen ANY of the supporters of this idea agree to.

    OR, if you want to fine them as a civil penaly, you must do so to recoup the cost that the government has incurred on their behlaf, meaning that you CANNOT fine someone that has NOT caused the government to incurr those costs.

    But you can tax it.
    So what?
    How does that negate anything I said?

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So what?
    How does that negate anything I said?
    Taxing it will disguise it, although it will act like a fine without the vast transactional costs associated with the criminality aspect.

    Although the point would essentially be moot if there was a public option. Hence, there would be no need for a tax :-)
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Taxing it will disguise it, although it will act like a fine without the vast transactional costs associated with the criminality aspect.
    So, you asnwer is... it -doesn't- negate anything I said.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 09-11-09 at 04:05 PM.

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So, you asnwer is... it -doesn't- negate anything I said.
    I was never trying to negate anything. With that said, what is your opinion of pigouvian taxation?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I was never trying to negate anything.
    Odd then that you claimed that you had.

    With that said, what is your opinion of pigouvian taxation?
    My opinon - which also just happens to be fact - is that it is irrelevant to my point.

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Odd then that you claimed that you had.
    No, i claimed that i had responded quite eloquently.

    My opinon - which also just happens to be fact - is that it is irrelevant to my point.
    That is not an honest answer, more of a shuffle. It is more relevant than you wish to believe, but in order for me to help you understand the topic a bit better, we are going to need some participation on your part....
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    No, i claimed that i had responded quite eloquently.
    If comepletely off point.

    That is not an honest answer...
    On the contrary -- it is a completely and brutally honest answer -- you just don't like it, which, of couse, is not my problem.

    I'm discussing X and, instead, you want to discuss your red herring, Y. I have no intention of being distracted in my discussion of X by your red herring, Y, and so I shant engage in a discussion of said red herring.

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