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Thread: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

  1. #221
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    ...not.
    You AGREED with my position on the issue.
    In your context. But in doing so, we are dumbing down the debate, in which i have no desire to do so. You see, if you are afraid to move past the "2=2" all while dismissing "(-4+6)=2", then you are not here to have any type of intellectual discussion.

    Being that you have proven it to be the case, just admit it. Nobody will think of you any less for it.

    If tax does not equal fine in the pigouvian context, can you explain how?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  2. #222
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I've already seen the information. The non-elected employers, who pay out a minimum of $200,000 a year in payroll, have to pay a 4%, 6%, or 8% healthcare tax. It doesn'ttake a very large company to pa out $200,000 in annual payroll.

    Employers, of any size, will be required to either purchase insurance, at about $3,000+ a year per employee, or pay the tax. There's no distinction between my business and a company like Exxon, or Kellogs. If there is a special consideration given to sall businesses, I would love to see it. You haven't done your own homework, so you srely haven't done mine.
    I hear your concerns, but again I have to say you're wrong. While the tax percentails you've quoted would normally apply to all businesses no matter how large or small under normal circumstances, Section 313(b)(1) on page 150 (and again on page 184) provides an exception to "small business" and would reduce their tax burden if they elect to make contributions to the HIE in lieu of participating in the HIE directly via employee enrollment:

    <$250K = 0% tax
    $250-300K = 2%
    $300-350K = 4%
    $350-400K = 6%

    $400,000 is the ceiling for being considered a "small business" under H.R. 3200. So, any business with a payroll greater than that amount would be subject to the 8% tax rate. So, in that regard you are correct...sorta. However, H.R. 3200 also defines a "small business" as any business with 2-50 employees. Therefore, even if you're small business has a payroll greater than $400K, they could get out of IF they employee <50 people. It's a catch-22, I know, but it's a way around having to pay the higher tax by NOT being classified as a "large business".

    Nonetheless, it bares restating that these taxes towhich we're debating would only apply to any business if and only if said business did not provide health insurance to their employees. If they do, they're absolved of paying this tax.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 09-11-09 at 01:54 PM.

  3. #223
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    In your context.
    And thus, the conversations ends, as my aergment, by necessity, is in my context.

    Now, you can have another discussion in another context of your choosing, but as it isn't the same context as mine, I have no obligation to participate; any pre-pubescent belittement of me by you on that point is nothing more than you whining because I wont play your petty little game.

    So, you can keep crying about it, but it wontchange anything.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 09-11-09 at 01:55 PM.

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    And thus, the conversations ends.
    And thus, goobieman has failed once again. Congrats
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    And thus, the conversations ends, as my aergment, by necessity, is in my context.

    Now, you can have another discussion in another context of your choosing, but as it isn't the same context as mine, I have no obligation to participate.
    True. God forbid you join a conversation rather than expect to just bloviate unopposed.

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    And thus, goobieman has failed once again. Congrats
    Failed at what, exactly?
    To make my point?
    The one that you AGREED with?


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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    True. God forbid you join a conversation rather than expect to just bloviate unopposed.
    You havent opposed my point with anything other than personal attacks and trolling.

    If you'd like to actually add something to the conversation, by, as you say, opposing my point rather than allowing me to bloviate unopposed, please do.

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Failed at what, exactly?
    To make my point?
    The one that you AGREED with?

    To have an actual discussion. I find it nothing short of sad that you refuse to take an extra step in synthesizing the discussion to a higher intellectual bounds.

    Of course you cannot criminalize the act (or lack of) not purchasing insurance. But you can tax it. Why are you so afraid to discuss it?

    This is why you fail.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You havent opposed my point with anything other than personal attacks and trolling.
    I have opposed your point quite eloquently. Under pigouvian taxation, Fine = Tax.

    It is you who has yet to make the next step in either defending your position, or admitting defeat....
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    To have an actual discussion.
    You agreed with me, in that my position was sound.
    Thus, the discussion ends.

    I find it nothing short of sad that you refuse to take an extra step in synthesizing the discussion to a higher intellectual bounds.

    This is why you fail.
    So, I don't fail in any relevant or meaningful way -- like failing to support my position -- but just because I 'disappointed' you by not following your red herring into a conversation that had nothing to do with my point?

    Oh, the sleep I will lose.


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