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Thread: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

  1. #131
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The point is NOT just to remove the taxpayer burden. The point is to remove the taxpayer burden AND transfer it to the appropriate party in the most fair way possible.
    You need to read better.

    MY point is to remove taxpayer burden.


    You have proposed making hospitals pay for the cost of irresponsible, uninsured people. I have proposed making irresponsible, uninsured people pay for the cost of irresponsible, uninsured people. Which seems more fair to you?
    No, you haven't. You put the burden on the taxpayer, explicitly, repeatedly. Then you use that as a wedge to force people to live the way you would choose for them to live.

    If you were actually worried about putting the responsibility where it belongs, then you'd have people take the ultimate responsibility for choosing no coverage -- they'd be out of luck. But that's not what it is for you -- it's only a rhetorical device to mandate the behavior you want.




    OK, please substantiate this. I don't even remember talking about what I consider to be "emergency care" in this thread or any other.
    Seeing as you've included everything from stitches to $5 million-dollar surgeries, why don't you provide the parameters yourself.
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  2. #132
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You need to read better.

    MY point is to remove taxpayer burden.
    That's fine, but then you can stop braying from the moral high ground about how my plan is anti-freedom, whereas your plan of forcing hospitals to pick up the tab is pro-freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw
    No, you haven't. You put the burden on the taxpayer, explicitly, repeatedly. Then you use that as a wedge to force people to live the way you would choose for them to live.
    I have done no such thing. I put the burden on the irresponsible people who don't have health insurance. If they don't have health insurance, then they are fined. It's as simple as that. I'm even willing to make exceptions for those religiously opposed to insurance or health care, those who can afford to self-insure, and those who are so dirt-poor they can't afford health care even with subsidies (hopefully not many in that category).

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw
    If you were actually worried about putting the responsibility where it belongs, then you'd have people take the ultimate responsibility for choosing no coverage -- they'd be out of luck. But that's not what it is for you -- it's only a rhetorical device to mandate the behavior you want.
    Even you tacitly admitted that this was an unworkable solution, by proposing your silly pawn-the-costs-off-to-the-hospital solution. So unless you are actually prepared to argue that making emergency care optional is truly a workable solution, you can stop returning to this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw
    Seeing as you've included everything from stitches to $5 million-dollar surgeries, why don't you provide the parameters yourself.
    YOU brought up stitches, not me.
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  3. #133
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But this would change under both H.R. 3200 and the Policy Option once it becomes an actually bill out of the Senate.

    Again, don't rely on talking points. Read both bills for yourself. As you're obviously a Conservative, I suggest (once again) that you (at least) read the Policy Option, if you haven't already done so. (And if you have, it should be a good refresher for this debate ).
    Show us in the bill where it says that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #134
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Then you especially need health insurance, because if you don't have the money to pay premiums, how would you ever pay your medical bills?
    1) I have health insurance. 2) I have health insurance because I choose to, not because I'm forced to. If I ever choose not to have health insurance, I shouldn't have to worry about being fined $3,800.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #135
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    1) I have health insurance. 2) I have health insurance because I choose to, not because I'm forced to. If I ever choose not to have health insurance, I shouldn't have to worry about being fined $3,800.
    And if you ever choose not to have health insurance, taxpayers shouldn't have to worry about paying for your ER bill. But they do, because optional ER care is not a practical solution. Therefore the government has every right to make you buy health insurance.

    Not carrying health insurance is the height of irresponsibility and shows a complete disregard for the property rights of other people.
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And if you ever choose not to have health insurance, taxpayers shouldn't have to worry about paying for your ER bill. But they do, because optional ER care is not a practical solution. Therefore the government has every right to make you buy health insurance.

    Not carrying health insurance is the height of irresponsibility and shows a complete disregard for the property rights of other people.
    No it doesn't there is this thing called the US Constitution and the Bill of Right I suggest you go and read it and then show me were it say's I or you or anyone else HAS TO HAVE ANYTHING THAT CONGRESS MANDATES.

    I'll be waiting

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    No it doesn't there is this thing called the US Constitution and the Bill of Right I suggest you go and read it and then show me were it say's I or you or anyone else HAS TO HAVE ANYTHING THAT CONGRESS MANDATES.

    I'll be waiting
    So I can murder people? Cool.

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    No it doesn't there is this thing called the US Constitution and the Bill of Right I suggest you go and read it and then show me were it say's I or you or anyone else HAS TO HAVE ANYTHING THAT CONGRESS MANDATES.
    So you are opposed to all laws regarding anything at all?
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  9. #139
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    [quote=Kandahar;1058244013]And if you ever choose not to have health insurance, taxpayers shouldn't have to worry about paying for your ER bill. But they do, because optional ER care is not a practical solution. Therefore the government has every right to make you buy health insurance.[quote]


    the tax payers have never paid my hospital bills. I broke my shoulder last summer, when I didn't have any insurance and trust me, the tax payers didn't pay the bill.

    Not carrying health insurance is the height of irresponsibility and shows a complete disregard for the property rights of other people.
    You must be mad as hell at the welfare class for ****ing with your property rights!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #140
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The only mandatory health care I support is emergency room care, and preventative care that may prevent you from ending up in the emergency room. I support assistance for other types of health care as well, but I don't think they should be mandatory.

    This would be analogous to protecting others (i.e. the taxpayers) from your inherently dangerous actions with the potential to cause lots of damage.



    That is not practical for a couple reasons. 1) The patient could die or be incapacitated, 2) Saddling someone for their entire life with medical bills without the option of bankruptcy creates a strong incentive for them to pursue sleazy activities instead of legitimate employment.
    I agree with both points (except the preventative care part). The government has no business mandating healthcare. Glad you agree.
    Last edited by other; 09-09-09 at 10:36 PM.

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