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Thread: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

  1. #101
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Nope, but I have health insurance.
    How much are your annual premiums and does your coverage meet the government's standard?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Then you especially need health insurance, because if you don't have the money to pay premiums, how would you ever pay your medical bills?
    Maybe he won't. But I doubt he expects it to be your problem or concern.
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Businesses, small and large, fall under the same tax laws. Small businesses don't get any breaks that large businesses don't get. There is no destinction between small and large businesses.
    But this would change under both H.R. 3200 and the Policy Option once it becomes an actually bill out of the Senate.

    Again, don't rely on talking points. Read both bills for yourself. As you're obviously a Conservative, I suggest (once again) that you (at least) read the Policy Option, if you haven't already done so. (And if you have, it should be a good refresher for this debate ).

  4. #104
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    Right, so how is this analogous to the debate in healthcare? Mandatory liability insurance is to protect others because driving is inherrently dangerous with the potential of causing lots of damage; Health insurance is to protect yourself, and like extended (non-mandatory) vehical coverage is optional.
    The only mandatory health care I support is emergency room care, and preventative care that may prevent you from ending up in the emergency room. I support assistance for other types of health care as well, but I don't think they should be mandatory.

    This would be analogous to protecting others (i.e. the taxpayers) from your inherently dangerous actions with the potential to cause lots of damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by other
    If you want to argue that those without health covrage still may use health service and incur costs on others, well, that's a problem with the laws already in place (either not being enforced or allowing for too many loopholes), not a person's choice not to be covered. If you are worried about this issue, you should advocate that ER patients be hit with the bill after they recover, and if you believe it's wrong that they can just file for bankruptcy at skip out on the bill then your problem is with bankruptcy procedure, not actual healthcare.
    That is not practical for a couple reasons. 1) The patient could die or be incapacitated, 2) Saddling someone for their entire life with medical bills without the option of bankruptcy creates a strong incentive for them to pursue sleazy activities instead of legitimate employment.
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Maybe he won't. But I doubt he expects it to be your problem or concern.
    This is the problem we all face...paying our premiums and part of that going towards paying the health care cost of others who do not have coverage. So, from that perspective, it is my concern...and yours...and the next guy's as well.

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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Yes, to protect you from an enormous debt should you ever be at fault for an accident.
    And fining people without health insurance protects the taxpayers from an enormous debt should they ever default on their obligations.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman
    And that still does not address the fact that driving and having a need for auto insurance are totally optional.
    If you ever drive a car, you could potentially cause an accident. Therefore, auto insurance is mandatory so that you don't make someone else pay for your accident.

    If you ever seek medical care or could potentially seek medical care (i.e. everyone except for a few religious communities), you could potentially have unaffordable health expenses. Therefore, health insurance is mandatory so that you don't make someone else pay for your health expenses.

    It's exactly the same logic. The fact that driving is optional doesn't change the fact that you could stiff an innocent party in either case.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman
    The whole idea of fining people preemptively before they don't pay a bill is retarded no matter how you attempt to justify it.
    The idea of fining all taxpayers (or hospitals) for the irresponsible actions of an identifiable few is retarded no matter how you attempt to justify it, as is the whole idea of denying people emergency care with imperfect information.
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  7. #107
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How much are your annual premiums and does your coverage meet the government's standard?
    I pay a little over $100 per month, so I would say about $1300ish annually. My coverage would probably meet any likely standard ($1500 deductible/out-of-pocket maximum, 100-0 for all expenses beyond that). Of course, I don't trust my health insurer to actually pay up and not try to screw me over if I ever file a claim...but that's another story.
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Maybe he won't. But I doubt he expects it to be your problem or concern.
    Of course he doesn't. No one ever EXPECTS to have a bankrupting accident, which is exactly why some people don't buy health insurance. It is my concern, because when uninsured people end up in the emergency room and can't or won't pay their bill, the taxpayers often end up with the bill.
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    This is the problem we all face...paying our premiums and part of that going towards paying the health care cost of others who do not have coverage. So, from that perspective, it is my concern...and yours...and the next guy's as well.
    It doesn't need to be. And whether or not this is true in actuality doesn't mean he (apdst) favors it being that way.

    Kandahar favors mandatory treatment. Because mandatory treatment requires that taxpayers foot any unpaid bills, it creates a burden on taxpayers. So, because there's a burden on taxpayers, it becomes the taxpayer's business whether or not someone has insurance. That's the theory, right? It's everyone's problem, right?

    Except that it's a problem created by what Kandahar favors. Take the first sentence out of the above paragraph, and the rest of it disappears. There would be no taxpayer burden, therefore, it would not be "everyone's problem."

    Basically, Kandahar thinks people should be forced to live the way he thinks they should live, rather than how they would actually choose to live.
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    Re: Fines proposed for going without health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Of course he doesn't. No one ever EXPECTS to have a bankrupting accident, which is exactly why some people don't buy health insurance. It is my concern, because when uninsured people end up in the emergency room and can't or won't pay their bill, the taxpayers often end up with the bill.
    Only because you force it to happen. See above.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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