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Thread: Obama adviser Van Jones resigns amid controversy

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    Re: Obama adviser Van Jones resigns amid controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    Tell that to the white House and Congress they are the one's who have decide to say these folks are Czars and given them allot more power then they should have and don't fall under any form of Check and Balance what part of this are you missing so I can try to make it clear to you.
    I have made no argument for or against whether or not congress should have a say in the placement of functionaries in the executive branch.

    However, it is hard enough often to get cabinet appointees through congress expeditiously, and one does have to wonder if this slippery slope would eventually lead to any and all paid executive office positions needing to go through congress.

    I can see it now: Mr. President, you consulted with your secretary on what color tie you should wear for a press conference. Since she is a paid member of your executive office, I hereby dub her "Attire czar" and demand congress makes a determination on whether or not she is suitable for this position.

    Now whether or not some positions in the executive branch should be vetted and cleared by congress is an issue that should be examined on a case by case basis, but seriously there has to be some kind of reasonable basis as to why. For god's sake, at least something more substantial than someone, somewhere decided to label the position a "czar" and vilify it.

    And for a bit of levity.. I highly doubt conservatives would everapprove of anyone qualified for the position Van Jones held

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89
    As for Mr. Beck please I take his remark like a grain of salt.
    The thanks is for the Beck comment, taking his statements with a grain of salt are as they should be, just as any other talking head's statements, or politician's for that matter.

    I used him as an example because he is the one that has been ramming this "evil czar" concept down everyone's throat so voraciously, and as such underscored my premise that czar is an arbitrary label that can be attached at will.
    Last edited by marduc; 09-06-09 at 04:27 PM.

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    Re: Obama adviser Van Jones resigns amid controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    I have made no argument for or against whether or not congress should have a say in the placement of functionaries in the executive branch.

    However, it is hard enough often to get cabinet appointees through congress expeditiously, and one does have to wonder if this slippery slope would eventually lead to any and all paid executive office positions needing to go through congress.

    I can see it now: Mr. President, you consulted with your secretary on what color tie you should wear for a press conference. Since she is a paid member of your executive office, I hereby dub her "Attire czar" and demand congress makes a determination on whether or not she is suitable for this position.

    Now whether or not some positions in the executive branch should be vetted and cleared by congress is an issue that should be examined on a case by case basis, but seriously there has to be some kind of reasonable basis as to why. For god's sake, at least something more substantial than someone, somewhere decided to label the position a "czar" and vilify it.

    And for a bit of levity.. I highly doubt conservatives would everapprove of anyone qualified for the position Van Jones held



    The thanks is for the Beck comment, taking his statements with a grain of salt are as they should be, just as any other talking head's statements, or politician's for that matter.

    I used him as an example because he is the one that has been ramming this "evil czar" concept down everyone's throat so voraciously, and as such underscored my premise that czar is an arbitrary label that can be attached at will.
    I do agree with you I think the use of the term Czar has grow and grow starting with Mr. Reagan who had just a few over the years the amount has vaired with each President both Mr. Clinton and Mr. Bush Sr had some with Mr. Bush Sr. having the least. While Mr. W Bush had the second most. My problem lies with the fact that some of these Czars like the Drug,AIDS,Climate,Education should go thru some sort of hearings by Congress.

    As for Mr. beck I will give him this he has shown a light on the subject good or bad it's all in how you look at it. He is a crack pot but sometime he gets lucky and calls it right

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    Re: Obama adviser Van Jones resigns amid controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post

    As for Mr. beck I will give him this he has shown a light on the subject good or bad it's all in how you look at it. He is a crack pot but sometime he gets lucky and calls it right
    Even a broken watch is right sometimes.

    Edit: It does not change the fact that it is still useless.
    Last edited by marduc; 09-06-09 at 04:47 PM.

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    Re: Obama adviser Van Jones resigns amid controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    Another man's job ruined by the right. He renounced these ideas before he was hired and the right decided to destroy his job, reputation, and livelihood. I have never seen anything like the political atmosphere the Right is creating right now.
    two of the three things occured THIS YEAR

    he is a ****ing loon and has no place in the white house, save gardener

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: Obama adviser Van Jones resigns amid controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    By all accounts 36 Czar far more then any other President here is a good story on it,

    Some Question Whether Obama Has Too Many 'Czars' - Political News - FOXNews.com

    From the article,

    In fact, the vast majority of Obama's czar's technically report to one of his Cabinet secretaries or to Vice President Biden, which raises another question.

    "Who is minding all the czars?" asked presidential scholar Marth Kumar. "Is there a template for how they produce information and how they then provide it to the White House?"

    Even if the president is able to manage his czars efficiently, some of his critics are frustrated because the czars don't have to answer to Congress.

    Hence my problem with all the Czars no Check and Balance they aren't confirmed and wield way to much power.

    And this is a quote from Sen. Byrd on the subject.

    Senator Robert C., Byrd (D-W.Va) has raised the issues that so many czars "can threaten the constitutional system of checks and balances."
    Okay who are these 36 czars name them I'm curious since you said they're not confirmed by congress. The fox article tries to add people who are apart of the cabinet as well. Lets see the list here Scorpion

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    Re: Obama adviser Van Jones resigns amid controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Okay who are these 36 czars name them I'm curious since you said they're not confirmed by congress. The fox article tries to add people who are apart of the cabinet as well. Lets see the list here Scorpion
    1. Afghanistan Czar - Richard Holbrooke
    2. AIDS Czar * - Jeffrey Crowley
    3. Auto Recovery Czar - Ed Montgomery
    4. Border Czar * - Alan Bersin
    5. California Water Czar - David J. Hayes
    6. Car Czar - Ron Bloom
    7. Central Region Czar - Dennis Ross
    8. Climate Czar - Todd Stern
    9. Domestic Violence Czar - Lynn Rosenthal
    10. Drug Czar * - Gil Kerlikowske
    11. Economic Czar * - Paul Volcker
    12. Energy and Environment Czar - Carol Browner
    13. Faith-Based Czar * - Joshua DuBois
    14. Government Performance Czar - Jeffrey Zients
    15. Great Lakes Czar - Cameron Davis
    16. Green Jobs Czar - Van Jones
    17. Guantanamo Closure Czar - Daniel Fried
    18. Health Czar * - Nancy-Ann DeParle
    19. Information Czar - Vivek Kundra
    20. Intelligence Czar * - Dennis Blair
    21. Mideast Peace Czar - George Mitchell
    22. Pay Czar - Kenneth R. Feinberg
    23. Regulatory Czar - Cass R. Sunstein *
    24. Science Czar - John Holdren
    25. Stimulus Accountability Czar - Earl Devaney
    26. Sudan Czar - J. Scott Gration
    27. TARP Czar - Herb Allison
    28. Technology Czar - Aneesh Chopra
    29. Terrorism Czar - John Brennan
    30. Urban Affairs Czar - Adolfo Carrion Jr.
    31. Weapons Czar - Ashton Carter
    32. WMD Policy Czar - Gary Samore

    Okay so its 32 unstead of 36 but there you go

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    Re: Obama adviser Van Jones resigns amid controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    1. Afghanistan Czar - Richard Holbrooke
    2. AIDS Czar * - Jeffrey Crowley
    3. Auto Recovery Czar - Ed Montgomery
    4. Border Czar * - Alan Bersin
    5. California Water Czar - David J. Hayes
    6. Car Czar - Ron Bloom
    7. Central Region Czar - Dennis Ross
    8. Climate Czar - Todd Stern
    9. Domestic Violence Czar - Lynn Rosenthal
    10. Drug Czar * - Gil Kerlikowske
    11. Economic Czar * - Paul Volcker
    12. Energy and Environment Czar - Carol Browner
    13. Faith-Based Czar * - Joshua DuBois
    14. Government Performance Czar - Jeffrey Zients
    15. Great Lakes Czar - Cameron Davis
    16. Green Jobs Czar - Van Jones
    17. Guantanamo Closure Czar - Daniel Fried
    18. Health Czar * - Nancy-Ann DeParle
    19. Information Czar - Vivek Kundra
    20. Intelligence Czar * - Dennis Blair
    21. Mideast Peace Czar - George Mitchell
    22. Pay Czar - Kenneth R. Feinberg
    23. Regulatory Czar - Cass R. Sunstein *
    24. Science Czar - John Holdren
    25. Stimulus Accountability Czar - Earl Devaney
    26. Sudan Czar - J. Scott Gration
    27. TARP Czar - Herb Allison
    28. Technology Czar - Aneesh Chopra
    29. Terrorism Czar - John Brennan
    30. Urban Affairs Czar - Adolfo Carrion Jr.
    31. Weapons Czar - Ashton Carter
    32. WMD Policy Czar - Gary Samore

    Okay so its 32 unstead of 36 but there you go
    Yep figured you wouldn't vet your information okay lets check out your list. Question what are the astericks?

    Funny that you're listing several cabinet level posts in here when your beef was about people who weren't confirmed.

    Okay Bersin was appointed by DHS.

    David Hayes is the Deputy Secretary of the Interior and was confirmed by the Senate on May 20.

    Dennis Ross is currently on the national security council. During the Carter administration he worked under Wolfowitz, during Reagan he served on the National Security Council, under Bush Sr he was Director of the United States State Department's Policy Planning Staff

    Todd Stern works for Hillary Clinton at the State Department

    Drug Czar has been around for a long time before Obama came into office.

    Carol Browner used to be in charge of the EPA during the Clinton years and has been confirmed in the past.

    Bush also had a faith based "czar"

    Jeff Zients was confirmed in the senate and is Deputy Director for Management of the Office of Management and Budget. He was confirmed on June 10th

    Daniel Fried works for the state department and previously had been Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for European and Eurasian Affairs at the National Security Council, all during the Bush Junior years and before that he was Ambassador to Poland. So yeah he's been confirmed before.

    Dennis Blair is the director of national intelligence and was confirmed in January.

    George Mitchell has a long history of public service was a senator, chairman of disney, worked with gingrinch on the UN task force

    Cass Sustein hasn't been confirmed yet he is being blocked by Saxby Chambliss

    John Holdren was confirmed by the senate on March 19. He is the Director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy

    Earl Devaney is the Inspector General for the United States Department of the Interior. He's been in this position since 1999

    J. Scott Gration was a major general born in the republic of congo. He was deputy director for operations in the joint staff, Director of Regional Affairs for the Deputy Undersecretary of the Air Force for International Affairs. Not some unknown. He was appointed as Special Envoy to Sudan

    Herb Allison is Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Financial Stability. He was confirmed by the senate on June 19th

    Aneesh Chopra is the Federal Chief Technology Officer. He was confirmed by the senate on August 7th

    John Brennan is the Deputy National Security Advisor. Before that he was the Interrim director of the national counterterrorism center. He has a long history with the CIA

    Ashton Carter is Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics. He has worked for the DOD and for the State Department through various presidencies republican and democrat. The ATL is not a newly created position.

    Again as stated your list is inaccurate as it lists many cabinet level positions which goes against your original complaint

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    Re: Obama adviser Van Jones resigns amid controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Yep figured you wouldn't vet your information okay lets check out your list. Question what are the astericks?

    Funny that you're listing several cabinet level posts in here when your beef was about people who weren't confirmed.

    Okay Bersin was appointed by DHS.

    David Hayes is the Deputy Secretary of the Interior and was confirmed by the Senate on May 20.

    Dennis Ross is currently on the national security council. During the Carter administration he worked under Wolfowitz, during Reagan he served on the National Security Council, under Bush Sr he was Director of the United States State Department's Policy Planning Staff

    Todd Stern works for Hillary Clinton at the State Department

    Drug Czar has been around for a long time before Obama came into office.

    Carol Browner used to be in charge of the EPA during the Clinton years and has been confirmed in the past.

    Bush also had a faith based "czar"

    Jeff Zients was confirmed in the senate and is Deputy Director for Management of the Office of Management and Budget. He was confirmed on June 10th

    Daniel Fried works for the state department and previously had been Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for European and Eurasian Affairs at the National Security Council, all during the Bush Junior years and before that he was Ambassador to Poland. So yeah he's been confirmed before.

    Dennis Blair is the director of national intelligence and was confirmed in January.

    George Mitchell has a long history of public service was a senator, chairman of disney, worked with gingrinch on the UN task force

    Cass Sustein hasn't been confirmed yet he is being blocked by Saxby Chambliss

    John Holdren was confirmed by the senate on March 19. He is the Director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy

    Earl Devaney is the Inspector General for the United States Department of the Interior. He's been in this position since 1999

    J. Scott Gration was a major general born in the republic of congo. He was deputy director for operations in the joint staff, Director of Regional Affairs for the Deputy Undersecretary of the Air Force for International Affairs. Not some unknown. He was appointed as Special Envoy to Sudan

    Herb Allison is Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Financial Stability. He was confirmed by the senate on June 19th

    Aneesh Chopra is the Federal Chief Technology Officer. He was confirmed by the senate on August 7th

    John Brennan is the Deputy National Security Advisor. Before that he was the Interrim director of the national counterterrorism center. He has a long history with the CIA

    Ashton Carter is Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics. He has worked for the DOD and for the State Department through various presidencies republican and democrat. The ATL is not a newly created position.

    Again as stated your list is inaccurate as it lists many cabinet level positions which goes against your original complaint
    No this is the list the White House has on there website so it's not my list and as for the astricks they are left over from Mr. W Bush Adm.

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    Re: Obama adviser Van Jones resigns amid controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    No this is the list the White House has on there website so it's not my list and as for the astricks they are left over from Mr. W Bush Adm.
    link please?

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    Re: Obama adviser Van Jones resigns amid controversy

    Look, whether it ends up being 42 czars not confirmed, or 12, the point is that we need to know who the hell these people are, and if they are qualified for the position they have been appointed to.

    Van Jones is a monumental example of this.

    .

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