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Thread: Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico

  1. #41
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    Re: Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin_was_a_nice_being View Post
    That is because it is more readily available then meth, herion, etc. You'd be surprised at how many people are afraid of approaching drug dealers for fear of it being an undercover cop or a psychotic drug dealer. But if those drugs were just as readily available as alcohol, then alcohol wouldn't kill more people then meth alone.
    Stating your opinion as fact does not make it one.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin_was_a_nice_being View Post
    Do you have any idea what Portugal is like compared to the US? In the US, everything is fast paced which leads to an addictive lifestyle more easily, in Portugal people are generally laid back and easy going which leads to a life of what is your chosing.
    Again, stating your opinion as fact does not make it one. Please explain to us, using facts, how a "fast paced" lifestyle leads to addiction.

    If we are not to use evidence readily available to us, how do you suggest that we modify our drug laws? Or do you think the current system is just peachy?
    Last edited by First Thought; 09-10-09 at 03:41 PM.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Stating your opinion as fact does not make it one.
    But it is when you say something because you post a fraudulant source that doesn't take into account enough variables?

    The fact is that drug legalization would never work, on the scale you are talking about. It is so ridiculous!

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    Re: Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Again, stating your opinion as fact does not make it one. Please explain to us, using facts, how a "fast paced" lifestyle leads to addiction.

    If we are not to use evidence readily available to us, how do you suggest that we modify our drug laws? Or do you think the current system is just peachy?
    The evidence readily available to us is not good. We need to modify our drug laws, most definately.

    Here is how it should be modified:
    Drug users are not criminals for using the drugs, they are criminals if they HARM someone else or personal property, and if they get arressted, it should be for the crime they committed and not for the drugs they were/are on, unless they were driving while under the influences.
    All drug production should be done by the government, and handed out by the federal government to users, and as well, as syringes and facilities addicts can use to sober up.
    Drug traffickers and dealers should be treated as criminals, and should be punished harshly. No private corporation or business or any other individuals can have its hand in the drug trade. It should be done by the government only, and the government can decide the prices of the drugs, and what the money will be used for.

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    Re: Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin_was_a_nice_being View Post
    Do you have any idea what Portugal is like compared to the US? In the US, everything is fast paced which leads to an addictive lifestyle more easily, in Portugal people are generally laid back and easy going which leads to a life of what is your chosing.
    This is the dumbest argument I've ever heard.

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    Re: Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    This is the dumbest argument I've ever heard.
    That is the greatest input you have ever put into any thread that I have seen. Thanks to you on the way!

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    Re: Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin_was_a_nice_being View Post
    But it is when you say something because you post a fraudulant source that doesn't take into account enough variables?
    Elaborate, please.

    The fact is that drug legalization would never work, on the scale you are talking about. It is so ridiculous!
    Again, make your case or go away. You are not arguing with facts, you are making absolute statements with absolutely nothing to support them.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    No demonstrable increases in abuse.;
    Strawman.

    no massive drug wars;
    Which companies sell heroin in Portugal? None? Check. Who is held accountable for deaths directly related to use of these drugs? Nobody? So what do we have? Criminals allowed to do business legally. Congratulations. You've proven that if drugs are legalized the 'black market' for it won't really disappear. It'll just be allowed to fund it's criminal operations legally. How many pharmaceutical companies use the proceeds of their business to fund crime? None? What do you think the Naple families use the money from Heroin for?

    no giant influxes of drug tourism;
    Another strawman.

    nothing. In fact, when compared to drug abuse rates amongst EU countries, Portugal has some of the lowest rates of abuse, ESPECIALLY when contrasted with countries that have stringent drug laws and enforcement. Even when reality refutes your flawed understanding of prohibition you still cling to your regressive - not to mention wholly inaccurate - perspective.
    Ah yes, the Portugal case. What the Libertarian Cato Institute fails to recognize is that Portugal did not have a real drug problem on the level that America does or for that matter deal with the same crime issues the United States does. Therefor their example is simply too vague and devoid of factors to be applicable to an American demographic.

    But here since you wanted to bring this up I'll show you why the Cato Institute dishonestly picked a country that had no real drug problems to begin with :

    Here are the leading causes of death in America :

    Drug Overdoses Now Second Leading Cause of Death

    The Centers for Disease Control reveal an alarming trend in drug abuse, both in legal and illegal drugs: accidental drug overdose has become the number one cause of death for adults ages 35-54, and is now the second leading cause of death in America.
    The leading cause of death in Portugal :

    Prospective Community-Based Study of Stroke in Northern Portugal: Incidence and Case Fatality in Rural and Urban Populations -- Correia et al. 35 (9): 2048 -- Stroke

    Despite a significant decline in mortality in this period, stroke was still the leading cause of death in 1999, accounting for 20% of all deaths,3 and age-standardized mortality was 170 per 100 000 for men and 142 per 100 000 for women. Besides the relatively high mortality, the recently reported incidence in western central Portugal was also high, 240.2 per 100 000.4
    5 Years After: Portugal's Drug Decriminalization Policy Shows Positive Results: Scientific American

    Five years later, the number of deaths from street drug overdoses dropped from around 400 to 290 annually, and the number of new HIV cases caused by using dirty needles to inject heroin, cocaine and other illegal substances plummeted from nearly 1,400 in 2000 to about 400 in 2006, according to a report released recently by the Cato Institute, a Washington, D.C, libertarian think tank.
    While drug use in Portugal has certainly decreased what the Cato Institute fails to mention is that overall crime in Portugal has risen. Now why would the Cato insitute ommit this clear as daylight fact? Maybe because it wouldn't support the claim that drug use would change very little?

    International Review of Crime Statistics for years 1994 to 2003 | Security and Society

    Over the period 1997-2001 crime rose by an average 4% across the EU. The greatest rises were in France, Greece and Portugal (16%), and the greatest drops were in Italy and Denmark. England & Wales saw a fall of 2% over this period (see graph)

    In 2000-2001 there was a rise of 3% on average across the EU. The largest rises were in Greece, Northern Ireland and Spain. Similar comparisons are given in the report for homicide, violent crime, robbery, domestic burglary, theft of a motor vehicle and drug trafficking.
    So while legalization brought about less drug users dying from it crime in Portugal actually rose during the same period. To what do you owe the rise of this crime?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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