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Thread: Finger bitten off during California health protest

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    Re: Finger bitten off during California health protest

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    This is seriously all you have? I guess it's better than "wasn't this thread about a pinky?".


    So, given the recent rash of shootings / mass murders in gun free zones... why do you continue supporting the notion that gun free zones work as you believe they should?


    You know what the definition of insanity is, right?
    How likely are you to go to a school shooting? If anything statistics show that school shootings have decreased in the last few years and are not the best example to use when suggesting arming schools.



    Contrary to public perception, school homicides declined after 1993, although from 1997 to 1999 there was a series of copycat shootings stimulated by unprecedented media coverage.
    But then again your argument seems to be that if something fails in the decimal % then it is a complete failure :

    However, a review of the National School Safety Centerís report (School Associated Violent Deaths :: National School Safety Center) identified 93 incidents when a student came onto school property and killed one or more persons over the worst ten-year period, 1992-3 to 2001-02. This means an average of about 9.3 cases per year or about once a month during the school year. Although we should strive to prevent all such cases, in a nation of 119,000 schools, a rate of 9.3 cases per year means that the average school can expect such an event about once every 12,800 years (119,000 divided by 9.3). This calculation is not intended to be a precise measure of risk, but an indication that there is a huge gap between the general perception of risk and the actual rate for the average school.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Finger bitten off during California health protest

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You have provided evidence that shooting can occur at "gun free zones". How is that evidence that they would be safer with guns? How is that evidence that more innocent people have died at them than at the hands of right wing nuts? Please support your assertions.



    Actually they do.

    CNN.com - Officer slain in*Virginia police station shooting - May 8, 2006
    5 dead as U.S. soldier in Iraq opens fire on fellow troops - Los Angeles Times



    You are the one making the assertions therefore the burden of proof falls on you to prove that there is evidence that faculty and staff who are properly trained to handle firearms can make a school safer. I'm charging that you are making such an argument under your own personal assumption with no empiracle evidence to back it up.

    Sweet, you provided an example of a carjacker who was fleeing the police ending up in their parking lot shooting at them... Not quite your typical active shooter who plans out going to a place and shooting everyone they can.

    The second one, I'll admit, you've got me there.


    I've already proven that Gun Free Zones are contributors to innocent lives being lost by pointing out recent history.


    Also, there are quite a few schools who allow guns on their campuses in the form of trained faculty. They've yet to have an active shooter situation.. and they probably never will. But it doesn't hurt to have the tools at hand to protect their children should the situation ever arise.

    Funny how the media doesn't sensationalize when normal Joes actually save other's in these active shooter situations... with their firearms...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    How likely are you to go to a school shooting? If anything statistics show that school shootings have decreased in the last few years and are not the best example to use when suggesting arming schools.





    But then again your argument seems to be that if something fails in the decimal % then it is a complete failure :
    So, because it's been rationalized as "such a small percentage of incidents" that's supposed to make the families of the recently decease feel better? They were just freak anomolies in the numbers?

    Nice.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Finger bitten off during California health protest

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    I've already proven that Gun Free Zones are contributors to innocent lives being lost by pointing out recent history.
    Actually what you have proven is that there have been killings in Gun Free Zones. You have provided no empirical evidence to support the notion that it would have been safer had guns been present. Therefore you cannot make the argument that the zones being gun free contributed to innocent lives being lost. For a person who asks "logical" questions, you should understand this much.

    Also, there are quite a few schools who allow guns on their campuses in the form of trained faculty. They've yet to have an active shooter situation.. and they probably never will. But it doesn't hurt to have the tools at hand to protect their children should the situation ever arise.
    Examples?

    Also, you realize that a rural school in Texas has an entirely different environment than an inner city school in New Jersey, right? Or do you think that guns should be available everywhere without consideration of the population?

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    Re: Finger bitten off during California health protest

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Actually what you have proven is that there have been killings in Gun Free Zones. You have provided no empirical evidence to support the notion that it would have been safer had guns been present. Therefore you cannot make the argument that the zones being gun free contributed to innocent lives being lost. For a person who asks "logical" questions, you should understand this much.



    Examples?

    Also, you realize that a rural school in Texas has an entirely different environment than an inner city school in New Jersey, right? Or do you think that guns should be available everywhere without consideration of the population?

    Texas and Utah are leading the way to remove emotional diatribes from keeping their kids safe.


    Location / Population density aren't at debate.. given proper training.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Finger bitten off during California health protest

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    So, because it's been rationalized as "such a small percentage of incidents" that's supposed to make the families of the recently decease feel better? They were just freak anomolies in the numbers?

    Nice.
    Your emotionally charged response to, I'll use the words of Truth Detector here, FACTS, has been noticed and sent to the rightful authorities. The reality is that nothing is fool proof. Not even school shootings. Doesn't really matter how many guns there are or how many guns there aren't. What I do know is one thing relying on a decimal percentage of incidents to make a case for arming schools is highly dishonest. If anything the fact that there is such low and I say again low gun violence in our schools would indicate that 'Gun Free Zones' as they are called do work.

    The majority of our soldiers don't engage in murderous acts of violence like the Nanjing massacre. A ridiculously small percentage have. Does that mean all of our soldiers are murderers and therefor we have instead of the world's finest military force a band of ragtag killers? I do not think so. Your argument relies on the exception and not what is overall the rule.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 09-03-09 at 05:13 PM.
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    Re: Finger bitten off during California health protest

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    This is seriously all you have? I guess it's better than "wasn't this thread about a pinky?".
    Yes...but wasn't this thread about a pinky?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Finger bitten off during California health protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Your emotionally charged response to, I'll use the words of Truth Detector here, FACTS, has been noticed and sent to the rightful authorities. The reality is that nothing is fool proof. Not even school shootings. Doesn't really matter how many guns there are or how many guns there aren't. What I do know is one thing relying on a decimal percentage of incidents to make a case for arming schools is highly dishonest. If anything the fact that there is such low and I say again low gun violence in our schools would indicate that 'Gun Free Zones' as they are called do work.
    Gun violence isn't the only type of violence in our schools.

    Where I went to school there were a few stabbings as well.

    Making an entire case to disarm anyone who could protect / serve to protect a group of people who you already disarmed.. based on "incredibly low numbers" seems dishonest at best as well.

    Statistics prove that CCW holders account for less than 1% of violent crime. Why is it that you guys are so against a responsible faculty member being able to protect their children / themselves?
    Last edited by stevenb; 09-03-09 at 05:16 PM.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Finger bitten off during California health protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes...but wasn't this thread about a pinky?
    Up until dragonwank turned it into a liberal anti-gun thread.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Finger bitten off during California health protest

    btw, we also don't have to only include schools...


    What about violent crime in federal buildings including post offices? Or malls, or other places?
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Finger bitten off during California health protest

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    Texas and Utah are leading the way to remove emotional diatribes from keeping their kids safe.


    Location / Population density aren't at debate.. given proper training.
    I'm still waiting for you to provide empirical evidence that...

    Gun free zones lead to more innocent deaths than right wing nuts.
    The presence of guns would make schools safer.

    Given that you made those claims earlier, I'm sure you have some evidence to back them up.

    As far as your "Location / Population density aren't at debate.. given proper training" what empirical evidence do you have to support this claim or are you just making another assumption as you seem quite prone to do.

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