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Conservatives want serious health debate

SouthernDemocrat said:
Yeah, I can't figure out what some people have against the post office. Its hurting for money because the need for the service is slowly dying, not because its done a bad job.
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if it cost 75 cents to mail a letter, that 's STILL a bargain.
 
I can guarantee that if the Post Office didn't exist and it were left to private companies, we'd be paying $2-3 dollars to mail a letter.
 
disneydude said:
I can guarantee that if the Post Office didn't exist and it were left to private companies, we'd be paying $2-3 dollars to mail a letter.
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How can you guarantee that?
 
Zyphlin said:
Because the government shouldn't be in "competition" with private industry in a production or service industry.

Microsoft needed "competition" as well in the 90's. Was the government supposed to set up a software shop? The potential need for "competition" in a market does not mean that the answer should be the GOVERNMENT becoming the competitor with the TAX PAYERS being the people funding said competition.
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Zyph is 100% correct here; and in addition, the Government will write the rules making the profit potential for private insurance nearly impossible by requiring them to provide coverage regardless of pre-existing conditions and mandating that they cannot charge varying rates for those with different ages and pre-existing conditions. The Government will also increase the penalties and taxes on Insurance companies who fail to comply with these new regulations.

The Government writes the rules, and does not have to worry about making enough money to cover its costs because it can TAX more.

The notion that we need a "Government" option to provide necessary competition to drive down costs is beyond uninformed; it borders on willful ignorance.
 
Goobieman said:
I dont see rates for 1oz letters.
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That's because FedEx and similar companies have a "base rate" at 1 lb for anything under.

Doesn't matter if its 1 ounce or 1 pound you pay the same.
 
Truth Detector said:
Zyph is 100% correct here; and in addition, the Government will write the rules making the profit potential for private insurance nearly impossible by requiring them to provide coverage regardless of pre-existing conditions and mandating that they cannot charge varying rates for those with different ages and pre-existing conditions. The Government will also increase the penalties and taxes on Insurance companies who fail to comply with these new regulations.

The Government writes the rules, and does not have to worry about making enough money to cover its costs because it can TAX more.

The notion that we need a "Government" option to provide necessary competition to drive down costs is beyond uninformed; it borders on willful ignorance.
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The Government wouldn't have to worry about "making enough money to cover its costs" because it won't have to pay the multi-million dollar salaries of the fat-cat CEO's that profit off the health of Americans under the insurance corporation "for profit" system.
 
dragondad said:
How true! Sure, there are are small measures that could be taken but they are "band-aids" in comparison to the public option.

The public option if enacted would lead big cost savings down the road. The Government could leverage their buying power to extract concessions from drug companies and medical providers. Administrative costs are lower. It puts pressure on insurance companies to compete.

It's simple really. There are five players in this game. The patient, the medical provider, the drug company, the insurance company, and the tax payer.

The public option puts pressure on the insurance company, the medical providers and the insurance companies to obtain real cost savings.

Band-aids do none of this...Only a right wing lemming would oppose the public option.
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So in other words according to Liberals, there can be no open honest debate because the line in the sand has been drawn and the ONLY acceptable reform you will support is one with a public option; we’re done!

With this type of discourse, there will only be one option for Democrats, to vote along straight party lines and hope they can pass it with their own members.

I find the efforts by Democrats and Liberals to fear monger this issue and attack the integrity of their opponents with hyperbolic BS disingenuous.

There is a reason Obama and Democrats in Congress want to demagogue their political opponents on this issue; they cannot get the votes within their own party so they paint Republicans with this asinine notion as the "party of NO" to cover their own members intransigence on the issue and Obama's possibly political ass kicking he will get by not passing this.
 
disneydude said:
That's because FedEx and similar companies have a "base rate" at 1 lb for anything under. Doesn't matter if its 1 ounce or 1 pound you pay the same.
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Then your citation isn't valid as it doesnt compare apples to apples.
 
Truth Detector said:
So in other words according to Liberals, there can be no open honest debate because the line in the sand has been drawn and the ONLY acceptable reform you will support is one with a public option; we’re done!

With this type of discourse, there will only be one option for Democrats, to vote along straight party lines and hope they can pass it with their own members.

I find the efforts by Democrats and Liberals to fear monger this issue and attack the integrity of their opponents with hyperbolic BS disingenuous.

There is a reason Obama and Democrats in Congress want to demagogue their political opponents on this issue; they cannot get the votes within their own party so they paint Republicans with this asinine notion as the "party of NO" to cover their own members intransigence on the issue and Obama's possibly political ass kicking he will get by not passing this.
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The "Party of No" has already clearly shown that they are not willing to negotiate in good faith, so Obama should look them in the eye and say "Screw Em". Democrats need to grow a spine and get to work doing what they were elected to do. There is absolutely no difference between a Congress/President with Republicans in charge and a Congress/President with Democrats that are too wimpy to use the power they have. If the Democrats can't get this done, then they are just as bad as the Republicans and are worth about the same.
 
Goobieman said:
Then your citation isn't valid as it doesnt compare apples to apples.
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No...its clearly valid. If the Post Office didn't exist, we would be paying over $5.00 a letter to be delivered in 4 days across the country because that's how FedEx and the other companies operate.

Hmmmmm.....kinda like insurance companies.
 
disneydude said:
The Government wouldn't have to worry about "making enough money to cover its costs" because it won't have to pay the multi-million dollar salaries of the fat-cat CEO's that profit off the health of Americans under the insurance corporation "for profit" system.
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Once again you would be wrong; but at least you are consistent. The Governments costs will super exceed those of those big bad “fatcat” CEOs you want to demagogue with your uninformed class envy hyperbole.

The notion that "profiting" is a bad idea can only be spewed by an ideology that operates in a vacuum of historic proportions. It is that profit motive combined with open legal competition that keeps costs down. No Government intervention in the economy and/or program in the history of man has ever been credibly shown to keep costs down.

You might want to read some of Walter Williams, a renowned black Economics Professor, history of the original lies spewed by Government when the Medicare program was first introduced and the cost estimates they claimed and who they claimed would be paying 100% of its cost.

Health care broken? Who broke it? | health, care, insurance, broken, politicians - Opinion - OCRegister.com

Walter Williams: Careful what you wish for on health care - Opinion - OCRegister.com
 
disneydude said:
The "Party of No" has already clearly shown that they are not willing to negotiate in good faith, so Obama should look them in the eye and say "Screw Em". Democrats need to grow a spine and get to work doing what they were elected to do. There is absolutely no difference between a Congress/President with Republicans in charge and a Congress/President with Democrats that are too wimpy to use the power they have. If the Democrats can't get this done, then they are just as bad as the Republicans and are worth about the same.
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How laughable; your notions of "good faith" basically equate to this; if you don't agree that we MUST have a "public" option, then you are not debating in good faith.

But alas, people with a modicum of intelligence see through this hyperbolic nonsense.

Demagogueing your political opponents as the "party of no" illustrates the vast sea of irony Liberals like you wallow in.

I do agree with you on this statement however; Obama should look them in the eye and say "Screw Em".

Unfortunately, Obama lacks the courage necessary to be honest and do this.

:rofl
 
disneydude said:
No...its clearly valid. If the Post Office didn't exist, we would be paying over $5.00 a letter to be delivered in 4 days across the country because that's how FedEx and the other companies operate.

Hmmmmm.....kinda like insurance companies.
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This is nothing more than pure hyperbolic speculation. But again, honest and open debate is nothing something you and many Liberals wish to engage in. Your idea of debate is for your opponents to just shut up and agree with you.

:rofl
 
disneydude said:
No...its clearly valid.
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Only if you assime - which you do - that FedEx, etc, will charge their 1lb package rate for 1oz first-class letters.
Support that assumption.
 
disneydude said:
The "Party of No" has already clearly shown that they are not willing to negotiate in good faith, so Obama should look them in the eye and say "Screw Em". Democrats need to grow a spine and get to work doing what they were elected to do. There is absolutely no difference between a Congress/President with Republicans in charge and a Congress/President with Democrats that are too wimpy to use the power they have. If the Democrats can't get this done, then they are just as bad as the Republicans and are worth about the same.
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It's happened for years. A few bad apple Dems, in bed with big corporate interests, ally themselves with the 99% rotton-to-the-core GOP to stop legislation good for middle class Americans. They must be defeated in primary elections.
 
Truth Detector said:
This is nothing more than pure hyperbolic speculation. But again, honest and open debate is nothing something you and many Liberals wish to engage in. Your idea of debate is for your opponents to just shut up and agree with you.

:rofl
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Its not based on speculation. Its based on the business practices employed by each. The fact is, you would pay over 10x what you are paying now to mail a simple letter across the country if "competition" were left to private companies without the benefit of the United States Postal service.

If FedEx or UPS or any other company wanted to "compete" and give a better rate on a one ounce letter, they would be doing it right now. They aren't interested and know that they can charge more by setting a base at over $5.00 for anything up to a pound.
 
Goobieman said:
Only if you assime - which you do - that FedEx, etc, will charge their 1lb package rate for 1oz first-class letters.
Support that assumption.
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They do right now....what are you talking about?

THAT is their rate. :doh
 
dragondad said:
It's happened for years. A few bad apple Dems, in bed with big corporate interests, ally themselves with the 99% rotton-to-the-core GOP to stop legislation good for middle class Americans. They must be defeated in primary elections.
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Absolutely. There is no difference between a Republican and a Democrat that votes as a Republican. Might as well elect the Republican, it makes no difference.
 
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