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Thread: Sentenced to death on the NHS

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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Days View Post
    Can you tell me where the world's first test tube baby was born? How about cloning (Dolly the sheep) and genetic studies? These are just 2 medical research breakthroughs which come to mind. You can't tell me that Britain doesn't do it's share of medical R&D. Yes, the US spends more on R&D but it doesn't benefit the people of the US, it benefits the drug companies. People in other countries get to use the same drugs but at much lower prices.
    I think you might be confused. No one ever claimed that medical advancements didn't occur elsewhere. Only that most (by quite a lot) of medical advancements occur in the US, and the US spends a lot more then other countries on medical R&D (hence the reason they innovate more and at least one additional reason our care is more expensive).

    Yeah... The medical advancements that the US came up with didn't benefit the people of the US.... Really, it's come down to such a ridiculous statement?

    I can only hope that most clear thinking people will just point at you and quietly snikcer behind their hand.
    Last edited by buck; 09-05-09 at 06:32 PM.

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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    If we look at real survey data (as opposed to partisan message board opinions), we'll find that Americans, Canadian, and the British all rate the quality of their health care nearly the same.

    In fact, according to Gallop, more Britains are somewhat dissatisfied or highly dissatisfied with the quality of their care than are Americans. The British do rate higher on the affordability of their care. So we see a trade-off between quality and cost.

    Gallop Health Care Survey

    How can you say there is a trade off between quality and cost when there is a very large portion of people in the US who can't afford to go see a doctor? They have no quality of care whatsoever. Your survey probably doesn't even consider those people. At least everyone in the UK and Canada has an opportunity to see a doctor when they get sick or injured.

    I saw someone post an article a few weeks ago about Canadians coming to the US for surgery etc. I didn't get a chance to respond, but here's my tuppence's worth on that one - If you have money you can go wherever the heck you want for your surgery. People with money will always have choices that others don't. This ties to your comments because you discuss quality vs cost. Most people live paycheck to paycheck. They lose their jobs and they typically lose their healthcare. That is so wrong.

    Do people understand the principle of insurance? You take insurance to spread the risk. If 100 people have paid the insurance but only one person has an accident then that one person is protected from financial ruin. The point is, however, that that accident could have happened to any one of those 100 people. I think the same goes for health insurance. Stop looking at things as every man for himself and start working as a team people. Give everyone the opportunity to buy reasonably priced insurance when they are born that won't be taken away from them if they have to actually use it or if they lose their job.

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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I think you might be confused. No one ever claimed that medical advancements didn't occur elsewhere. Only that most (by quite a lot) of medical advancements occur in the US, and the US spends a lot more then other countries on medical R&D (hence the reason they innovate more and at least one additional reason our care is more expensive).

    Yeah... The medical advancements that the US came up with didn't benefit the people of the US.... Really, it's come down to such a ridiculous statement?

    I can only hope that most clear thinking people will just point at you and quietly snikcer behind their hand.
    Oh geez, you're one of those idiots who think if you make fun of me for my comments then it makes you look intelligent (snicker behind hand). Medical advancements in the US do not benefit the people of the US if they are one of the people who doesn't have health insurance. Yes they do benefit those who can afford them but not everyone.

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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Days View Post
    Oh geez, you're one of those idiots who think if you make fun of me for my comments then it makes you look intelligent (snicker behind hand). Medical advancements in the US do not benefit the people of the US if they are one of the people who doesn't have health insurance. Yes they do benefit those who can afford them but not everyone.
    You just changed your comment entirely. You went from "US advancements don't benefit the people of the US" to "US advanements don't benefit all of the people of the US".

    Regardless, federal law requires that a hospital provide emergency medical treatment. So, yes, even the 10 or so percent of people that don't have any health insurance have the opportunity to benefit from US medical advancements.

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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    I find it quite baffling that so many Americans cry on about how costly it would be to have state healthcare. Well I can tell you this, it won't cost a fraction of your excessive military spending. Why are you so happy to spend fortunes on taking lives but so against spending less to save lives? Why do you want the state to train people to kill but not to heal? It's perverse.
    "His (Che Guevara) life is the story of our era's most perfect man" - Jean Paul Sartre

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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Castro View Post
    I find it quite baffling that so many Americans cry on about how costly it would be to have state healthcare. Well I can tell you this, it won't cost a fraction of your excessive military spending. Why are you so happy to spend fortunes on taking lives but so against spending less to save lives? Why do you want the state to train people to kill but not to heal? It's perverse.
    Some communist philosophy?

    No seriously. The USA is living in an extremely dangerous world, and nations counter to the interests of Democracy and Human rights are rising in power and the US's own influence is beginning to wobble. A strong military is a strong western world. I think cuts in military spending is a nah ah.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Some communist philosophy?

    No seriously. The USA is living in an extremely dangerous world, and nations counter to the interests of Democracy and Human rights are rising in power and the US's own influence is beginning to wobble. A strong military is a strong western world. I think cuts in military spending is a nah ah.
    it is precisely their obscurantist militarism which creates a dangerous world. Cutting that out would make the world safer, not more dangerous. It is their militarism which has murdered hundreds of thousands Iraqi's, Afghans and many other peoples before them. This is what creates a swamp of hatred.

    Also I do not want a 'strong western world'. I want strong peoples, of all the world.

    If America is serious about having a safer world then it should be slashing its unnecessary military and re-allocating to state health services. if they can build the mightiest killing machine in the world they can build the mightiest life saving machine in the world. Imagine if instead of sending thousands out into the world to kill, they sent out thousands to care for people, if Cuba can do it then so can the US. People in the middle east and elsewhere wouldn't want to attack a state which cares for them, but they will want to kill someone who like a coward bombs them from the skies.
    "His (Che Guevara) life is the story of our era's most perfect man" - Jean Paul Sartre

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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Some communist philosophy?

    No seriously. The USA is living in an extremely dangerous world, and nations counter to the interests of Democracy and Human rights are rising in power and the US's own influence is beginning to wobble. A strong military is a strong western world. I think cuts in military spending is a nah ah.
    You have to remember that as an ardent, unflinching Marxist who's obviously not only swallowed ALL the Kool-Aid, but keeps barrels of Kool-Aid mix on hand, he despises the Western culture which birthed him. Not likely to sway him here.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Castro View Post
    it is precisely their obscurantist militarism which creates a dangerous world. Cutting that out would make the world safer, not more dangerous. It is their militarism which has murdered hundreds of thousands Iraqi's, Afghans and many other peoples before them. This is what creates a swamp of hatred.
    I can counter your argument and say the American military has saved many lives and has also been the cause of liberation in many opressive parts of the world.

    Also I do not want a 'strong western world'. I want strong peoples, of all the world.
    I think for as long as every nation has interests that are counter to others, there will be conflict.

    If America is serious about having a safer world then it should be slashing its unnecessary military and re-allocating to state health services.
    Would that make the world a safer place, or a world with a weakened America?

    Imagine if instead of sending thousands out into the world to kill, they sent out thousands to care for people, if Cuba can do it then so can the US.
    Thats a bit extreme and ignorant to the reality of whats happened. And lets not use Cuba as an example, of all countries...seriously.


    People in the middle east and elsewhere wouldn't want to attack a state which cares for them, but they will want to kill someone who like a coward bombs them from the skies.
    I could say the same for Americans. They dont want to attack a state which cares for them...9/11 just shows Americans how much Afghanistan and the ME really cared.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You have to remember that as an ardent, unflinching Marxist who's obviously not only swallowed ALL the Kool-Aid, but keeps barrels of Kool-Aid mix on hand, he despises the Western culture which birthed him. Not likely to sway him here.
    Im not trying to sway him at all. Im just telling him why a weakened American military is not what Americans want, nor the Western World, regardless of his own beliefs. Thats why his own belief the Americans should cut military spending will not sway a Capitalist either.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

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