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Thread: Sentenced to death on the NHS

  1. #21
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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Actually, our NHS definetly has its flaws, but its the backbone of the country. Its a complete success story in terms of offering healthcare to everybody in the country at no cost. This crisis is one i have not yet heard of, and sounds like it is on a small scale. Otherwise, the NHS has been miracolous at saving lives and offering health care opportunities and jobs across the country. Sometimes it can be tedious to wait for something as simple as a scan...but when you find yourself in need of an Op, us Britons are ever so glad it exists. I dont think we could imagine a UK without it.

    So stop using the NHS's faults as a terror tactic for your own governments plans. I agree, it will be very difficult and very costly in a country as large as America. Obama will likey legislate the American Health Care System in such a way that will be a burden for your middle class American taxpayer in one way or another, you may believe it will reduce quality. But here in Britain, our system is just fine, so leave it alone.
    I agree with you about the general benefits of the NHS even if I think it is not quite so miraculous and could do with a few changes. But it is always worth pointing out it is certainly not at no cost, although maybe that was simply vague wording and you meant at point of access.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 09-03-09 at 11:54 PM.
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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Unfortunately this thread was started on an idiotic premise and therefore it does no one any good to continue to debate over it.

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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Doctors make mistakes in small cases? Holy ****, really? I thought the NHS delegated its angelic power of healing to these doctors to make them completely omniscient. Christ, guys, was I ever wrong.

    I honestly think there's a about 0.1% of Britain that want to abolish the NHS. It's one of our national achievments.
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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    I set that straight already.
    And yet your original post still stands for all to see...

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya
    Its a complete success story in terms of offering healthcare to everybody in the country at no cost.
    What you and other socialized medicine advocates do is rather like car salesmen who advertise to sell vehicles 'interest free.' It's a gimmick that sounds great on its face. Of course when we read the fine print we realize that we'll be paying more under the 'interest free' program. Similarly, there's no such thing as 'no cost' health care. Yet you'll continue to spread that line proudly, then cover yourself with your 'fine print' explanations later.


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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    And yet we pay less than the American private system for better healthcare. Lord Mighty it's a miracle!
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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    And yet your original post still stands for all to see...



    What you and other socialized medicine advocates do is rather like car salesmen who advertise to sell vehicles 'interest free.' It's a gimmick that sounds great on its face. Of course when we read the fine print we realize that we'll be paying more under the 'interest free' program. Similarly, there's no such thing as 'no cost' health care. Yet you'll continue to spread that line proudly, then cover yourself with your 'fine print' explanations later.

    Dude....what the ****? She clarified her position and corrected herself. Let it go.
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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I agree with you about the general benefits of the NHS even if I think it is not quite so miraculous and could do with a few changes. But it is always worth pointing out it is certainly not at no cost, although maybe that was simply vague wording and you meant at point of access.
    I worded that post wrong and corrected myself on the post after that. Please read it. I know the NHS isnt perfect, but its good enough for your average Briton

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    And yet your original post still stands for all to see...
    Indeed. So does this post which corrects the misunderstanding:

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Was that post for me? I didnt say there was no costs. We pay for the healthcare we recieve through tax. But that comes back to us when we are in need of medical attention. The taxes are reasonable and ensure the best quality health care, and when we need it, we recieve the sufficient attention we need, without having to worry about soaring debts compromising our lifestyle as a result. Healthcare is a service we have the right to. In the long run it works out better to pay an extra tax than pay huge bills when in need of medical attention.

    And in your posting of this article, it is evident you have no clue about our NHS system, hence your attempt at a comparison between the British national health care and the American to-be national healthcare, as they are totally different systems (legistlated and strucutured totally differently).


    What you and other socialized medicine advocates do is rather like car salesmen who advertise to sell vehicles 'interest free.' It's a gimmick that sounds great on its face. Of course when we read the fine print we realize that we'll be paying more under the 'interest free' program.
    Pathetic squabble. Simply speaking, you accuse us of saying its free and so on so fourth while this is far from the truth; its a fact that the costs will be covered by tax money, at the benefit of you recieving as much healthcare as required without all the bills and the interest, with more job opportunities for the country and healthcare for all classes of the nation. You said earlier on that its a common misconception that people believe this service to be "free" and we trick people into thinking that. Please provide proof of this assertion, also research more about the huge positive impact of socialized medicine here in the UK, and TRY and find something other than the error i made in the previous post about their being no costs where i corrected myself afterwards as seen above.

    If you cannot see the fact that a reasonable addition of taxes to be payed inorder to access a healthcare system whereby you may recieve sufficient healthcare at the benefit of there being no huge hospital bills and interest to pay back, as well as, through Obama's nationalization of the healthcare system open the doors to healthcare for all the classes of the country to enjoy, as they rightfully should, then im sorry you cannot see that. But the one thing that gets to me is Americans finding everything and anything they can to use against our own system as a terror tactic for Obama's plans. You know, the only people unsatisfied with the NHS seems to be those who have never lived in the UK.

    Similarly, there's no such thing as 'no cost' health care. Yet you'll continue to spread that line proudly, then cover yourself with your 'fine print' explanations later.

    Havent i already made you aware of this error? Is this all you got? Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Dude....what the ****? She clarified her position and corrected herself. Let it go.
    Thankyou. And read my sig (:
    Last edited by kaya'08; 09-04-09 at 04:55 PM.
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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Unfortunately this thread was started on an idiotic premise and therefore it does no one any good to continue to debate over it.
    Really?

    Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away.


    As a result the scheme is causing a “national crisis” in patient care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke’s cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

    “Forecasting death is an inexact science,”they say. Patients are being diagnosed as being close to death “without regard to the fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.

    “As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients."

    The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients Association estimated that up to one million patients had received poor or cruel care on the NHS.
    Last edited by Realist1; 09-04-09 at 04:51 PM.

  9. #29
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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    Really?

    Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away.


    As a result the scheme is causing a “national crisis” in patient care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke’s cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

    “Forecasting death is an inexact science,”they say. Patients are being diagnosed as being close to death “without regard to the fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.

    “As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients."

    The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients Association estimated that up to one million patients had received poor or cruel care on the NHS.
    The problem is if you keep searching for awful things said about the NHS, you will certainly be able to find them because we are constantly vigilant about finding problems, exposing them and getting them sorted.

    However, I had heard nothing about this 'growing discontent' till I found this post so I decided to have a further look.

    It appears that what you are making a fuss about is a letter sent to the Telegraph. By some Drs yes, but by a large section of Drs in this country, it would appear not.

    Creation therefore I think makes a valid point.

    ‘As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients.’

    However, a spokeswoman for Marie Curie said: ‘The letter talks about death being an inexact science and that is absolutely right. The Liverpool Care Pathway is not about ticking boxes, all decisions are made by a multi-disciplinary team so they’re constantly reviewed and any decisions are made by a range of experts in palliative care.’
    Medics warn of 'national discontent' over care of terminally ill patients | News | Nursing Times

    If there is genuinely a problem, it will be sorted but I would not make such a fuss over one letter sent to a Tabloid newspaper.

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    Re: Sentenced to death on the NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Nixon View Post
    And yet we pay less than the American private system for better healthcare. Lord Mighty it's a miracle!
    The NTIMES had an article a bit ago about the US paying more than other countries. One of the authors conclusions was we pay more due to the fact that most medical innovations are from the US. We spend more on R&D.

    The article also pointed out that most nobel prize winners are from, or reside in, the US.

    One of the conclusions he drew was that Americans spend more on health care, in part, due to the much larger amount we spend on medical R&D and for the "best" medical professionals.

    Anyway, once a lot of the profit motivation is removed from the medical industry, at least if you beleive that article, we will see less medical innovation, which will greatly hurt the world over time (due to loss of medical innovations going forward).

    BTW, the "Better healthcare" comment is not as cut and dry as you might like to believe.
    Last edited by buck; 09-05-09 at 11:55 AM.

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