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Thread: Dealers Still Waiting For 'Clunker' Cash...

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    Re: Dealers Still Waiting For 'Clunker' Cash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Hey TD, can you tell me when the program started? If you can, and think about it, you will understand why the August jobs report shows what it does.
    Redress, not one single job has been created since the beginning of the Obama Presidency; rather 6,000,000 plus have been lost.

    Now using simple math, please explain to me how this idiotic program called "cash for clunkers" added ONE single job to the economy.

    Let me give you a pertinent example of what this is: You have a lake which is the pool of money confiscated from the American tax payers. The democrats are dipping the bucket into one side of the lake, then pouring the water into the other side and claiming they created economic activity; yet the lake is still at the same level.

    Good lord, the notion that the Government can SPEND us into economic activity is beyond the pale in that the ONLY way Government can SPEND anything is by TAKING it out of the economy in the first place. You don't need to be an economic genius to figure this out.

    FACT: Cars for clunkers created ZERO jobs in the economy; the economy LOST an additional 250,000 jobs in August.

    The efforts to claim that programs like these create jobs is about as asinine as Obama claiming the Stimulus program created 150,000 new jobs while at the same time the unemployment increased that month by 650,000.

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    Re: Dealers Still Waiting For 'Clunker' Cash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Redress, not one single job has been created since the beginning of the Obama Presidency; rather 6,000,000 plus have been lost.

    Now using simple math, please explain to me how this idiotic program called "cash for clunkers" added ONE single job to the economy.

    Let me give you a pertinent example of what this is: You have a lake which is the pool of money confiscated from the American tax payers. The democrats are dipping the bucket into one side of the lake, then pouring the water into the other side and claiming they created economic activity; yet the lake is still at the same level.

    Good lord, the notion that the Government can SPEND us into economic activity is beyond the pale in that the ONLY way Government can SPEND anything is by TAKING it out of the economy in the first place. You don't need to be an economic genius to figure this out.

    FACT: Cars for clunkers created ZERO jobs in the economy; the economy LOST an additional 250,000 jobs in August.

    The efforts to claim that programs like these create jobs is about as asinine as Obama claiming the Stimulus program created 150,000 new jobs while at the same time the unemployment increased that month by 650,000.
    So truth, with all due respect...How do you fix the problem? How do you you increase employment IMMEDIATELY? It's easy to say that this has created zero jobs, which may be true on a balance sheet, but who is to say that if this program wasn't created that MORE than 250,000 jobs wouldn't have been lost. I don't think any one action by any administration can make such a vast improvement that employment figures would jump by over a quarter of a million jobs in one month.

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    Re: Dealers Still Waiting For 'Clunker' Cash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    Bush inherited a 4% unemployment rate and more than DOUBLED it when he left office to 8.1%.

    Obama's been in office 7 months, and you expect the numbers to automatically drop?

    If you can't even begin your arguments based on facts, why should anyone take you seriously?
    Wait a minute, what facts am I missing; I clearly stated that Obama hasn't created ONE new job since being in office. What am I missing here?

    Obama falsely CLAIMED that his stimulus plan would keep unemployment from going over 8%. Obama falsely claimed that his plans would create 5,000,000 new highly paid jobs; to date he has watched the economy decline at accelerated rates, spent us into a $1.6 trillion dollar deficit and we have lost over 6,000,000 jobs. What part of the FACTS am I missing here?

    You made the following false claim:
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    Yes. the program was so successful that they have to triple the number of people working on the claims. It cleared out dealers inventories and put people back to work.
    Facts apparently are not your forte' as you attempted to suggest the above when last month in August we lost ANOTHER 250,000 jobs. How is that job creation I wonder unless you are using some new Librul math here.

    Fact: the unemployment rate at the end of Bush’s Presidency was actually 7.2% and is now headed for double digits under Obamanomics.

    Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

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    Re: Dealers Still Waiting For 'Clunker' Cash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Redress, not one single job has been created since the beginning of the Obama Presidency; rather 6,000,000 plus have been lost.

    Now using simple math, please explain to me how this idiotic program called "cash for clunkers" added ONE single job to the economy.

    Let me give you a pertinent example of what this is: You have a lake which is the pool of money confiscated from the American tax payers. The democrats are dipping the bucket into one side of the lake, then pouring the water into the other side and claiming they created economic activity; yet the lake is still at the same level.

    Good lord, the notion that the Government can SPEND us into economic activity is beyond the pale in that the ONLY way Government can SPEND anything is by TAKING it out of the economy in the first place. You don't need to be an economic genius to figure this out.

    FACT: Cars for clunkers created ZERO jobs in the economy; the economy LOST an additional 250,000 jobs in August.

    The efforts to claim that programs like these create jobs is about as asinine as Obama claiming the Stimulus program created 150,000 new jobs while at the same time the unemployment increased that month by 650,000.
    You don't follow the difference between net job, and gross job creation and loss. To illustrate: a Chinese restaurant has opened in my home town about 3 months ago. That was a few jobs created. However, overall unemployment is up in the town. That is because more jobs are lost than gained. This is the problem with your statement that no new jobs have been created. Jobs have been created, just more jobs have been lost. This is inevitable due to the economic recession.

    Further, I can prove that CARS has put people back to work, since it is the reason I personally am back to work, and a large number of others in the automotive and associated industries(ie, the steel industry). ?Cash for Clunkers? Drives GM Union Callback; Economy Boosts Ford Production | Car Czar Consulting

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    Re: Dealers Still Waiting For 'Clunker' Cash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Hey Jerry, want to guess how many people got called back to their career work due to this program? I will give you a hint, GM alone called back over 1000 workers, and this drives work for GM suppliers, both part suppliers and raw material suppliers(ie, steelworkers are getting called back to work too).
    How many workers have been laid off? In July alone over 47,322 transportation manufacturing jobs were lost, and you want to brag that GM brought back 1,000 and claim that as a success and job increase? You’re kidding right?

    Over the last three months excluding August, transportation manufacturing jobs have declined by 119,003. So if we do some simple math, the returned jobs for GM amount to about .84%. What a wild success this program has been dude!

    Here are some facts; it would do you some good reading them.
    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/mmls.pdf

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    Re: Dealers Still Waiting For 'Clunker' Cash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You don't follow the difference between net job, and gross job creation and loss. To illustrate: a Chinese restaurant has opened in my home town about 3 months ago. That was a few jobs created. However, overall unemployment is up in the town. That is because more jobs are lost than gained. This is the problem with your statement that no new jobs have been created. Jobs have been created, just more jobs have been lost. This is inevitable due to the economic recession.

    Further, I can prove that CARS has put people back to work, since it is the reason I personally am back to work, and a large number of others in the automotive and associated industries(ie, the steel industry). ?Cash for Clunkers? Drives GM Union Callback; Economy Boosts Ford Production | Car Czar Consulting
    Exactly my point, thank you redress! Net jobs is exactly what it's about. It's easy to say that the program is crap just because unemployment is still down. But without the jobs that HAVE been added, unemployment may just be down a greater amount.

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    Re: Dealers Still Waiting For 'Clunker' Cash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    How many workers have been laid off? In July alone over 47,322 transportation manufacturing jobs were lost, and you want to brag that GM brought back 1,000 and claim that as a success and job increase? You’re kidding right?

    Over the last three months excluding August, transportation manufacturing jobs have declined by 119,003. So if we do some simple math, the returned jobs for GM amount to about .84%. What a wild success this program has been dude!

    Here are some facts; it would do you some good reading them.
    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/mmls.pdf
    What do you expect to happen in a recession truth? Jobs WILL be lost,under ANY administration. You are being ridiculously partisan (as per usual)
    The fact that ANY jobs have returned is a sign of improvement in a job market that is still (and you just posted numbers to prove this) in decline. I would say that any job retention is a sign of improvement. Now, this is not to say that I view this program as a success, because as of now there is NO way to tell. You just want to say "Bad Obama!" just because it is the easiest thing to do. To believe that you can immediately know the results and effects of a very recent bill is disingenuous and downright arrogant.

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    Re: Dealers Still Waiting For 'Clunker' Cash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Redress, not one single job has been created since the beginning of the Obama Presidency; rather 6,000,000 plus have been lost.

    Now using simple math, please explain to me how this idiotic program called "cash for clunkers" added ONE single job to the economy.

    Let me give you a pertinent example of what this is: You have a lake which is the pool of money confiscated from the American tax payers. The democrats are dipping the bucket into one side of the lake, then pouring the water into the other side and claiming they created economic activity; yet the lake is still at the same level.

    Good lord, the notion that the Government can SPEND us into economic activity is beyond the pale in that the ONLY way Government can SPEND anything is by TAKING it out of the economy in the first place. You don't need to be an economic genius to figure this out.

    FACT: Cars for clunkers created ZERO jobs in the economy; the economy LOST an additional 250,000 jobs in August.

    The efforts to claim that programs like these create jobs is about as asinine as Obama claiming the Stimulus program created 150,000 new jobs while at the same time the unemployment increased that month by 650,000.
    Okay, simple math...here we go.
    I have 1000 dollars in my pocket and i get robbed. I now have zero dollars and to boot my debit card just overdrafted as I was on the way to deposit that money in the bank. Now with fees I have negative 100 dollars to my name, but on the way home, lucky me, I find a 20 dollar bill lying in the street. Now, I have negative 80 dollars...I have still had a pretty bad day, but would you not agree that you would rather have -80 than -100?


    Now, to use this math in your example...Unemployment dropped that month by 650,000 but 150,000 jobs were created. Now had those jobs not been created, unemployment would be at 800,000. Which situation is better?
    Last edited by Midwest Lib; 09-01-09 at 07:03 PM.

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    Re: Dealers Still Waiting For 'Clunker' Cash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    So truth, with all due respect...How do you fix the problem? How do you you increase employment IMMEDIATELY? It's easy to say that this has created zero jobs, which may be true on a balance sheet, but who is to say that if this program wasn't created that MORE than 250,000 jobs wouldn't have been lost. I don't think any one action by any administration can make such a vast improvement that employment figures would jump by over a quarter of a million jobs in one month.
    Once again one has to engage in highly speculative guessing and suggest that had we not spent the nation into a $1.6 trillion deficit, things COULD have been worse.

    Well, based on historical facts, there is NOTHING out there that supports the idea that the Government spending vast sums of money it does not have will do anything to improve economic conditions. Rather, the historical facts suggest that what it does is EXTEND the economic problems and perhaps make them even worse.

    When I studied economics in the University, it was fairly common acceptance that Keynesian theories were not sound and we only learned them in order to better understand theories that made more sense.

    Now suddenly, there is this new found rush to take Keynesian theories and put them on steroids.

    Let me ask you a very OBVIOUS question; what happens to our economics when the Government finally starts to force the American taxpayers to pay for the trillions in deficits we have run up?

    What do you think will happen in the next six months, with continued job losses, to the housing market when many who have lost jobs for more than 6 months and own homes can no longer make their payments?

    What do you think will happen to job growth if Obama spends another Trillion he doesn't have on healthcare?

    What do you think will happen economically if the ONLY jobs that are being created in the economy are Government jobs and they pass the cap and trade boondoggle bill?

    The FACTS are so apparent that only those seriously wallowing in willful denial can continue to pretend that.....the recession is OVER! Yes, like all good Liberal Democrats, they think they can just say things and that makes them so!

    But alas, this is the REAL world and the ONLY thing that creates jobs are the entrepreneurs and corporations who given the capital and profit opportunity to risk capital, expand businesses and opportunities through their own ingenuity. Therefore, the ONLY solution to an economic recession is the opposite of what Obamanomics prescribe; and that would be to reign in Government spending, provide tax incentives to business and individuals and stop the demagogue of Wall Street and Big Corporations as being evil and greedy.

    This notion that MORE Government as being better and keeping us from doing stupid things that lead to bankruptcy through good Government oversight would by hysterically laughable if not so damaging to our economic wellbeing.

    Want to see the oversight people in action before this fiasco blew up? Here you go, watch and learn what oversight REALLY is:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4A0RuXhnQA"]YouTube - Democrats Fighting Regulation of Freddie & Fannie[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxgSubmiGt8"]YouTube - Burning Down The House: What Caused Our Economic Crisis?[/ame]

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    Re: Dealers Still Waiting For 'Clunker' Cash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Hey Jerry, want to guess how many people got called back to their career work due to this program? I will give you a hint, GM alone called back over 1000 workers, and this drives work for GM suppliers, both part suppliers and raw material suppliers(ie, steelworkers are getting called back to work too).
    Dealers and analysts are projecting awful auto sales for the forseeable future. The feeling is that anyone that needed a car has now bought one under the clunkers program.

    So, how long do you think those jobs will continue?

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