Dealers Still Waiting For 'Clunker' Cash...

Redress said:

You want to tell me what data from July has to do with a program that started not until the end of July? By the way, GM brought back 1300ish in one callback, and most of GM's suppliers called people back, and alot of the suppliers to those suppliers are calling people back now. This is going to have a net positive effect. Whether it is enough to offset total losses is in question, but it is almost without question that employment levels will be better for August/September at least do to CARS.

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These are temporary adjustments for a program that will only get a temporary result; August estimates are already in that more than 240,000 jobs were shed.

I can't see how this program will have any impact and by your own data, amounts to less than 1% jobs out of the hundreds of thousands shed.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense cannot argue that a program where the Government takes money from one tax payer, gives it to another to buy a car is going to create anything but MORE deficits which have to be paid back by someone; and when the bill comes due, it will slap whatever minor imperceptible improvements made down big time.

That is not a fabrication; those are just the facts. :2wave:

Truth Detector said:

Once again you and Midwest are missing the fallacy of your arguments; the fallacy is your claim that it was Obama's programs that created the few jobs resulting in a lower NET loss of jobs; however, I can just as easily argue that had Obama done nothing, MORE jobs could have been created and more permanently resulting in even fewer jobs lost.

The same fallacy can be illustrated by your example that FOUR restaurants closed as a result of Obama's programs while only one new restaurant opened. Bottom line; more jobs were lost.

But with all the illogical desperation being argued here, the FACT remains, many more jobs are being lost than are being created and the notion that Cars for Clunkers has been a huge success when a mere 1,000 jobs out of the hundreds of thousands that were ended had been merely reinstated and nothing new created to sustain it is farcical at best.

At least I am using FACTS to support my argument while you and Midwest continue to use absurd analogies trying to support mere speculation.

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You are absolutely right, you can support this OPINION and more power to you. We are supporting our opinion. I at least have the ability to say I may be wrong, you are just arrogant in your absolute certainty that you are correct.

What happens when the program ends? Is it going to be made permanent?

What is the current staff of the clunker program?

Meanwhile Ford is adding a third shift in KC and Dearborn thanks in part to cash for clunkers.

<Ford will add third production shift at Kansas City Assembly Plant>


<Ford said it is on track for its highest monthly F-Series and Escape sales of 2009, after strong sales for both models in July. The Escape and Escape Hybrid set a July sales record with 20,241 units, its third-highest monthly sales performance since its introduction in 2000, the release said. The Escape’s share of the small utility segment in 2009 through July is 16 percent, up 2.3 percentage points from the same period in 2008.>

Ford will add third production shift at Kansas City Assembly Plant - Kansas City Business Journal:

‘Cash for clunkers’ demand means more work at Ford’s Claycomo plant - Kansas City Star

What do you think is going to happen to car sales for the rest of the year? This was just an artificial "feel good" stimulus that did nothing but lump more debt on to the American people.

theangryamerican said:

What do you think is going to happen to car sales for the rest of the year? This was just an artificial "feel good" stimulus that did nothing but lump more debt on to the American people.

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I look at it as priming the pump.:2wave:

theangryamerican said:

What do you think is going to happen to car sales for the rest of the year? This was just an artificial "feel good" stimulus that did nothing but lump more debt on to the American people.

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This is what Democrats and Libruls do best; things that FEEL good but have relatively zero or likely negative impact.

But hey, they can say that they cared as the economy continues to tank, jobs continue to disappear and they can point to Dearborn and claim they created 50,000 jobs while the industry sheds hundreds of thousands with more to come in the future because no one will be able to afford a car when the Democrats are done handing us the bill for the trillions in deficits they are creating.

Midwest Lib said:

Thank you...I meant no disrespect, but often, people do put unfounded opinions on these forums and try to pass them as facts...I appreciate the link.

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Change the "people" to "I" and you have a factual claim. :rofl

Truth Detector said:

This is what Democrats and Libruls do best; things that FEEL good but have relatively zero or likely negative impact.

But hey, they can say that they cared as the economy continues to tank, jobs continue to disappear and they can point to Dearborn and claim they created 50,000 jobs while the industry sheds hundreds of thousands with more to come in the future because no one will be able to afford a car when the Democrats are done handing us the bill for the trillions in deficits they are creating.

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Do you have anything to add to the topic?

theangryamerican said:

News, Weather and Sports for Sioux Falls, South Dakota, Minnesota and Iowa

This is the government you want running your healthcare? :shock:

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Ooops,,,:lol:

B.O. Failed again.:roll:

Auto makers will release their monthly sales reports Tuesday and they're expected to show the first year-to-year increase since 2007. While the Cash for Clunkers program is getting all the credit, local car dealers are still waiting for their cash.

During the month long program, Billion Automotive sold close to a thousand vehicles but has only been reimbursed for 272 of them. Vern Eide sold over 200 cars and has only been paid for 27 of them, and that's fueling lots of concerns in the auto industry.

Billion Automotive cashed in during Cash for Clunkers, but owner Dave Billion is still waiting for the rest of his money from the government run program, $3.2 million.

That's out of HIS Pocket.:roll: He "trusted" b.o.? Was he a Democrat?:lol:

donc said:

Do you have anything to add to the topic?

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I've added a hell of a lot more than you have to the topic, or ever could for that matter; what irony when you post this trite effort at trolling and baiting. :2wave:

Midwest Lib said:

Thank you...I meant no disrespect, but often, people do put unfounded opinions on these forums and try to pass them as facts...I appreciate the link.

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None taken. It's just a pet-peeve of mine,I guess.

I get that people need sources for many claims, but this one seemed to be common-sense. If the government is giving money away, people will push up a purchse by a year or so in order to take advantage.

Anyway, sorry.

Truth Detector said:

Once again you and Midwest are missing the fallacy of your arguments; the fallacy is your claim that it was Obama's programs that created the few jobs resulting in a lower NET loss of jobs; however, I can just as easily argue that had Obama done nothing, MORE jobs could have been created and more permanently resulting in even fewer jobs lost.

The same fallacy can be illustrated by your example that FOUR restaurants closed as a result of Obama's programs while only one new restaurant opened. Bottom line; more jobs were lost.

But with all the illogical desperation being argued here, the FACT remains, many more jobs are being lost than are being created and the notion that Cars for Clunkers has been a huge success when a mere 1,000 jobs out of the hundreds of thousands that were ended had been merely reinstated and nothing new created to sustain it is farcical at best.

At least I am using FACTS to support my argument while you and Midwest continue to use absurd analogies trying to support mere speculation.

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That is all speculation TD. We can play the game of is it Obama's fault this job was lost, or does he get credit for this job gain all day, and we will never agree. The fact is though that CARS is putting people to work. Whether it costs others jobs, that is another issue, though I doubt it will be as many as gained by a large margin.

I would point out that no one has said a "mere 1,000 jobs" have been gained by that. I pointed out that one company called back over 1,000 jobs at one time as a result of CARS. You could at least try to use the TRUTH.

Truth Detector said:

Change the "people" to "I" and you have a factual claim. :rofl

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Please show me where I have made my opinions to be fact...In fact i usually lead in things such as "In my opinion" or "I believe"

Thanks for your input though:2wave:

Redress said:

That is all speculation TD. We can play the game of is it Obama's fault this job was lost, or does he get credit for this job gain all day, and we will never agree. The fact is though that CARS is putting people to work. Whether it costs others jobs, that is another issue, though I doubt it will be as many as gained by a large margin.

I would point out that no one has said a "mere 1,000 jobs" have been gained by that. I pointed out that one company called back over 1,000 jobs at one time as a result of CARS. You could at least try to use the TRUTH.

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Auto makers will release their monthly sales reports Tuesday and they're expected to show the first year-to-year increase since 2007. While the Cash for Clunkers program is getting all the credit, local car dealers are still waiting for their cash.

During the month long program, Billion Automotive sold close to a thousand vehicles but has only been reimbursed for 272 of them. Vern Eide sold over 200 cars and has only been paid for 27 of them, and that's fueling lots of concerns in the auto industry.

Billion Automotive cashed in during Cash for Clunkers, but owner Dave Billion is still waiting for the rest of his money from the government run program, $3.2 million

As most of the Dealers STUPID ENOUGH to "deal" with B.O.:lol:

Truth Detector said:

These are temporary adjustments for a program that will only get a temporary result; August estimates are already in that more than 240,000 jobs were shed.

I can't see how this program will have any impact and by your own data, amounts to less than 1% jobs out of the hundreds of thousands shed.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense cannot argue that a program where the Government takes money from one tax payer, gives it to another to buy a car is going to create anything but MORE deficits which have to be paid back by someone; and when the bill comes due, it will slap whatever minor imperceptible improvements made down big time.

That is not a fabrication; those are just the facts. :2wave:

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You are misrepresenting the data I gave, as addressed in my previous post. No one is questioning I don't think that this will only be a temporary boost, and other factors are needed to extend things. Hopefully, if the economy begins real improvement, at least part of those jobs will stretch out to permanent. That is certainly the hope where I work, and our plant manager has data which he claims suggests this, though we have to take him at his word on that.

Redress said:

You are misrepresenting the data I gave, as addressed in my previous post. No one is questioning I don't think that this will only be a temporary boost, and other factors are needed to extend things. Hopefully, if the economy begins real improvement, at least part of those jobs will stretch out to permanent. That is certainly the hope where I work, and our plant manager has data which he claims suggests this, though we have to take him at his word on that.

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Here's the Data Redress.:lol:

Auto makers will release their monthly sales reports Tuesday and they're expected to show the first year-to-year increase since 2007. While the Cash for Clunkers program is getting all the credit, local car dealers are still waiting for their cash.


During the month long program, Billion Automotive sold close to a thousand vehicles but has only been reimbursed for 272 of them. Vern Eide sold over 200 cars and has only been paid for 27 of them, and that's fueling lots of concerns in the auto industry.

As most of the Dealers STUPID ENOUGH to "deal" with B.O. :roll:

Realist1 said:

Here's the Data Redress.:lol:

Auto makers will release their monthly sales reports Tuesday and they're expected to show the first year-to-year increase since 2007. While the Cash for Clunkers program is getting all the credit, local car dealers are still waiting for their cash.


During the month long program, Billion Automotive sold close to a thousand vehicles but has only been reimbursed for 272 of them. Vern Eide sold over 200 cars and has only been paid for 27 of them, and that's fueling lots of concerns in the auto industry.

As most of the Dealers STUPID ENOUGH to "deal" with B.O. :roll:

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I addressed this much earlier in the thread. The money is slow coming, but it will come. For a more detailed answer, see my earlier post. I would also point out that your comments have nothing to do with the post you replied with. Do you think spamming the same post will make it mean more?

donc said:

I look at it as priming the pump.:2wave:

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Really? I look at it as pulling the drain plug...:2razz:

Redress said:

I addressed this much earlier in the thread. The money is slow coming, but it will come. For a more detailed answer, see my earlier post. I would also point out that your comments have nothing to do with the post you replied with. Do you think spamming the same post will make it mean more?

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I "Think",,,why would you ask me to lower myself to a Liberal's position?:lol: If by presenting the Facts, you chastise me,,,in your minds eye.:lol:

Why would I gravitate downward toward the Liberal position?:roll:

Redress said:

That is all speculation TD. We can play the game of is it Obama's fault this job was lost, or does he get credit for this job gain all day, and we will never agree. The fact is though that CARS is putting people to work. Whether it costs others jobs, that is another issue, though I doubt it will be as many as gained by a large margin.

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No, you are speculating about a stupid program that has done NOTHING to move the economy by making the ridiculous claim that if not for the confiscation of tax payers money to give to other tax payers, in other taking from one group and giving to another, the MIGHT have been even greater job losses in an industry that has shed hundreds of thousands of jobs since Obama was in office.

I am merely reiterating the plain FACTS: we have shed 6,000,000 jobs since the beginning of the year and continue shedding them at the pace of several hundred thousand a month. I don't know how anyone can think that this program, the stimulus program or anything else this administration has lied to the American people about has been a good thing.

You want to see REAL bad? Wait until these morons are finally honest about the taxes they will have to raise from EVERY ONE of us to pay for all this stupidity. Then you will REALLY see the economy tank even more.

The ONLY reason they refuse to talk about it right now is that they know they are going to lose seats in Congress and if they were to be honest about the taxes to be raised would lose vast margins more. They are going to try to avoid talking about this subject until after the mid terms; because after all, they are Democrats and don't give a rats butt about honesty or the American people, they just care about keeping the political power they held for six decades except for the brief time Republicans had it.

Redress said:

I would point out that no one has said a "mere 1,000 jobs" have been gained by that. I pointed out that one company called back over 1,000 jobs at one time as a result of CARS. You could at least try to use the TRUTH.

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I know you only mentioned 1,000. But would it even matter if you said 3,000? How about we round it up to 5,000. Bottom line is this; the industry has shed hundreds of thousands of jobs and called back a few thousand; that's a hell of a great deal for spending several billions of tax payer money on; with returns like that, hell, after another three trillion we can claim we saved 200,000 jobs. Now about the 6,000,000 and hundreds of thousands being lost monthly, what say you to that? Is it a success or a factual indication that Obamanoimics are NOT working and certainly not working according to their campaign rhetoric?

I truly wish I were wrong, because my business is heading way south and I just can't pretend that it is getting any better. It would be nice to actually see positive results; but there won't be any until the American voters vote these morons out who are destroying what little capital formation is left in this country.

Realist1 said:

I "Think",,,why would you ask me to lower myself to a Liberal's position?:lol: If by presenting the Facts, you chastise me,,,in your minds eye.:lol:

Why would I gravitate downward toward the Liberal position?:roll:

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So you are saying only liberals think? I guess I would not want you to do anything as radical as thinking...

theangryamerican said:

News, Weather and Sports for Sioux Falls, South Dakota, Minnesota and Iowa

This is the government you want running your healthcare? :shock:

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The government will not be running our healthcare, we who have always ran your healthcare will be. Who are we ??? We are your friendly healthcare insurance companies. We are the only ones who are qualified to run healthcare. We know how to deny claims, to raise premiuns, to impose restrictions on which drugs we will pay for, which docs will be in the Networks that we set up for you in your zip code, we tell the docs how much we will reimburse them and for what and when we will do it. OOOPS I forgot the damn government Insurance Commisioners they suck !! They make us pay claims within 18 to 24 months from date of service !!! CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT ?

The darn government is telling US, the private insurance companies that we have to pay you guys on time !!! That is SOCIALISTIC !!! It is not the government's business who we pay or how much. We the private insurance companies should have the right to decide whether we want to pay you, how much and when. We and we alone should decide if we want to insure you and for how long and we should be able to charge what the hell we want. No one should interfere !!!!

Redress said:

So you are saying only liberals think? I guess I would not want you to do anything as radical as thinking...

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I've never implied you think at all Redress.:lol: On anything.

You have my apology, if you've EVER thought other wise. Now that we've both "Insulted"' us both,,, Lets "Banter":lol:

Take care.

Joe1991 said:

Yes. the program was so successful that they have to triple the number of people working on the claims. It cleared out dealers inventories and put people back to work.

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It is a feel good costly program that will only "help" on a temporary basis.

Well it's not your father's Oldsmobile !! Ooops that's obsolete !!! So is this program. I meant Clunkmobile !!! Poor PRES Obama !! Lincoln had a nice car named after him so did President Pierce ( Pierce -Arrow). And even Pope had the defunct Popemobile. But President Obama will be known for that Clunkermobile !!