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Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

apdst said:
What would you use as probable cause? Don't forget, you have to be specific to get a warrant.
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There are tons of pieces of evidence (on many different crimes) that any Magistrate would find compelling enough to simply issue a search warrant. Very little evidence needs to be produced...as long as it appears reasonable to the Magistrate.
I have applied for & served thousands of such warrants.


Example:

Restraint Of Trade:

The fact that in 2001 Dick Cheney chaired a secret Energy task force meeting of top oil company execs & gasoline/home heating prices skyrocketed right after those meetings.
The Bush/Cheney regime has fought release of the minutes of those meetings for 8 years.
[Google Cheney Energy Task Force 2001
 
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Devil505 said:
Example:

Restraint Of Trade:

The fact that in 2001 Dick Cheney chaired an Energy task force of top oil company execs & gasoline/hoe heating prices skyrocketted right after those meetings.
The Bush/Cheney regime has fought release of the minutes of those meetings for 8 years.
[Google Cheney Energy Task Force 2001
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This is a crime, you say? Which law has been broken?

Maybe you should re-take the warrant serving class?
 
apdst said:
This is a crime, you say? Which law has been broken?

Maybe you should re-take the warrant serving class?
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You asked me what evidence I would present to a Magistrate in application for a search warrant.
I answered you & the fact that you know nothing about applications for & the granting of search warrants is quite evident from your response. I suggest you stick with subjects you have some knowledge of.
(The fact that the meetings were secret & .....right after the meetings prices shot up...across the board ....& the fact that Cheney has been fighting in court for years to keep them secret makes one wonder...What is he hiding? What was decided at those meeting?

More than enough PC for a warrant.
 
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Devil505 said:
There are tons of pieces of evidence (on many different crimes) that any Magistrate would find compelling enough to simply issue a search warrant. Very little evidence needs to be produced...as long as it appears reasonable to the Magistrate.
I have applied for & served thousands of such warrants.


Example:

Restraint Of Trade:

The fact that in 2001 Dick Cheney chaired an Energy task force of top oil company execs & gasoline/hoe heating prices skyrocketted right after those meetings.
The Bush/Cheney regime has fought release of the minutes of those meetings for 8 years.
[Google Cheney Energy Task Force 2001
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Um the energy task force was not comprised of top oil company executives, it met with those executives, imagine that, a task force tasked with developing a national energy policy met with energy industry executives. :roll:

Furthermore; what would Cheney stand to gain from energy price hiking? If anything it would hurt the political capital of the Bush administration.
 
Agent Ferris said:
Um the energy task force was not comprised of top oil company executives, it met with those executives,
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So now we're debating "Comprised of" vs "Met With"???


Agent Ferris said:
what would Cheney stand to gain from energy price hiking? .
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I don't know....Maybe millions of dollars?!? (Cheney came from the oil industry, remember?)


Bottom line is there isn't a U.S. Magistrate in this country who wouldn't issue a search warrant based on just that info.

So I answered your question.
 
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Devil505 said:
So now we're debating "Comprised of" vs "Met With"???
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Ya it's kind of an important distinction don't you think?


I don't know....Maybe millions of dollars?!?
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How so exactly? Now this is something very easy to prove, show me a single scrap of evidence that Cheney had a financial interest in any of these energy corporations.

Bottom line is there isn't a U.S. Magistrate in this country who wouldn't issue a search warrant based on just that info.
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Not really, considering that the Energy Task Force met with energy executives for nearly the entire Bush administration, thus even if your assertion that energy prices increased after one of these meetings (something you have yet to prove BTW) it still proves absolutely nothing.
 
Devil505 said:
You asked me what evidence I would present to a Magistrate in application for a search warrant.
I answered you & the fact that you know nothing about applications for & the granting of search warrants is quite evident from your response. I suggest you stick with subjects you have some knowledge of.
(The fact that the meetings were secret & .....right after the meetings prices shot up...across the board ....& the fact that Cheney has been fighting in court for years to keep them secret makes one wonder...What is he hiding? What was decided at those meeting?

More than enough PC for a warrant.
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lol the fact that he won his court battle proves that he's guilty? Are you kidding me?
 
Devil505 said:
You asked me what evidence I would present to a Magistrate in application for a search warrant.
I answered you & the fact that you know nothing about applications for & the granting of search warrants is quite evident from your response. I suggest you stick with subjects you have some knowledge of.
(The fact that the meetings were secret & .....right after the meetings prices shot up...across the board ....& the fact that Cheney has been fighting in court for years to keep them secret makes one wonder...What is he hiding? What was decided at those meeting?

More than enough PC for a warrant.
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Well, then you definitely need to go back to warrant serving school.
 
Cheney is an intolerable liar and a pirate.
 
Grim17 said:
Now there's a well thought out, educated response.
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Not debating that pirate is....unaccurate, but liar is true. He withheld information from Bush, concerning Guantanomo. As for intolerable...I don't know many people, conservative or liberal, who particularly like seeing him on TV.
 
Grim17 said:
Now there's a well thought out, educated response.


.
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I don't need an "education" to spot a liar.

The evidence of Cheney's lies, manipulations and deceptions remains overwhelming to say the least.
 
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repeter said:
Not debating that pirate is...
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You don't think he was a pirate?

Cheney and his band of heartless minions hijacked the United States and drove her right into a wall.
 
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The_Limt said:
You don't think he was a pirate?

Cheney and his band of heartless minions hijacked the United States and drove her right into a wall.
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That is an awesome way to think of it. :lol:
 
apdst said:
Well, then you definitely need to go back to warrant serving school.
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May I ask how many times you have appeared before a U.S. Magistrate, applied for & been granted a search warrant & then actually served said warrant?
 
Agent Ferris said:
lol the fact that he won his court battle proves that he's guilty? Are you kidding me?
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Not at all. The fact that he has been fighting the release of the transcriptions of those secret meetings shows he is trying to hide something, & yes....indicates guilt.
(if these were legitimate national energy meetings....& classified info was discussed....Why won't Cheney even let REPUBLICAN Senators (with security clearance) read the minutes of those meetings?)

I suggest that it is because criminal Restraint of Trade/Price Fixing tactics (felonies) were discussed with his oil company buddies, & that's what I would argue to the Magistrate.
 
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Please explain to the public what you do in the bedroom. If you don't you're hiding something and it's a sign of GUILT OF WRONGDOING.
 
ScottD said:
The real reason Al-Queda hasn't attacked us since 9-11 is simple, thanks to the Bush Administration fear-mongering, we are still afraid of them, and we are willing to throw our morals out the window to not die at their hands. They know that attacking us won't be worth it. They won't try to attack us till we aren't afraid of them. So thank you Bush, not for torture, or Iraq, but for the true thing that made us safer, us being **** scared of Osama.
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What a load of crap. Wanna know how a never-done-a-thing, two-memoir-writing, community organizer gets elected? Brain-washed non-thinking like this.
 
With all the hand wringing & crying going on here.....I still haven't heard one good reason to not (at least) investigate possible crimes committed in our name.

If no crimes were committed that would vindicate Cheney & all CIA employees/contractors.

What are you so afraid of?

( & if you believe one administration shouldn't investigate the possible crimes of it's predecessor, Then you can't possibly be against ANYTHING Obama does! Since no one should ever investigate him, he (Obama) can comitt as many crimes as he wants, right?)
 
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Agent Ferris said:
No they were convicted for "conspiring to force confessions" not for torture.



Lol, the word "severe" is entirely subjective. It's a subjective qualifier thus whether or not waterboarding is torture is your own opinion. Subjective qualifiers have no place in legal definitions.
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Again you seem to miss the other parts of the definition including threats to one's life. The other conditions are met making it torture. Not just extortion but civil rights violations. All this stemmed from his use of waterboarding. You also forget that in 1898 Maj Edwin Glenn was court martialed and convicted of the crime of torture for waterboarding people in the phillippines. Again there are cases we have that uphold waterboarding as torture. Now do you have any cases where it was prosecuted and it was not considered torture?



Agent Ferris said:
No it was a North Vietnamese POW not VC, he was protected by the Geneva Conventions, and entitled to POW status IE, he could not be subjected to ANY coercive or unpleasant treatment of ANY kind:
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None of this changes the fact that he was prosecuted for waterboarding and torturing the prisoner.

Agent Ferris said:
"No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind."


International Humanitarian Law - Third 1949 Geneva Convention
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We're talking US Law now again I posted what the US law definition of torture is and waterboarding falls into torture under our laws.


Agent Ferris said:
The Japanese were not convicted for just waterboarding people, while they were being waterboarded they were, also, beaten and burned with cigarettes and so much water was pored that their stomachs became descended and then they would proceed to beat on the descended stomach. That is not in any way the same thing that occurred at Gitmo.
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And yet it was a component of it. Beatings have occured at Baghram and Gitmo along with Abu Ghraib. There have been 100 homicides that we know of with around 20 being investigated. Again just the facts.
 
Agent Ferris said:
"In a second compromise, officials said a more recent inadvertent disclosure resulted in references to Mrs. Plame in confidential documents sent by the CIA to the U.S. Interests Section of the Swiss Embassy in Havana.

The documents were supposed to be sealed from the Cuban government, but intelligence officials said the Cubans read the classified material and learned the secrets contained in them, the officials said."

CIA officer named prior to column - Washington Times
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This doesn't tell me anything. How exactly did the CIA reveal her name where's the context. Anoynymous sources with no information regarding it. Have anything more concrete?
 
Devil505 said:
With all the hand wringing & crying going on here.....I still haven't heard one good reason to not (at least) investigate possible crimes committed in our name.

If no crimes were committed that would vindicate Cheney & all CIA employees/contractors.

What are you so afraid of?

( & if you believe one administration shouldn't investigate the possible crimes of it's predecessor, Then you can't possibly be against ANYTHING Obama does! Since no one should ever investigate him, he (Obama) can comitt as many crimes as he wants, right?)
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The CIA operates under more scrutiny than any other Federal agency. They are constantly under the eye of the executive branch, the attorney general, congress. What they do is largely secret to those outside the intelligence community, as it well should be. Interrogation techniques were legally analyzed by career attorneys in the justice department. When allegations were made they were investigated and at least one individual was punished. All oversight agents were notified of the methods and the results of the investigation. Guidelines were restated.

The reason to not investigate this now is that we are still at war and the investigation may further divulge methods, techniques and the identities of the people who use those methods and techniques. Also, the investigation has already taken place. As far as Cheney being criminal in his associations, no official legal action has been taken or is being evaluated. One can only assume it is an empty assertion. Further, Clinton was impeached for lying under oath in an investigation of he and Hilary's association with the Rose Law Firm and Whitewater where several people ended up in jail. Don't lie; don't go to jail.

Not only does it appear political for Holder to pursue this but it also appears that he is consciously trying to do exactly what I stated is the reason not to do this. Does that make him an agent of our enemies? You answer that.

The CIA are an agency that does "mission impossible" like missions for the people of the United States and does not deserve to be disrespected when they are doing their duty to the best of their ability. Dick Cheney is an honorable and patriotic man. No charges have been filed against him which have held water. He also does not deserve to be disrespected for doing his duty to the best of his ability.
 
LowRevs said:
The CIA operates under more scrutiny than any other Federal agency. They are constantly under the eye of the executive branch, the attorney general, congress.
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The Executive Branch WAS Bush & Cheney, Gonzales was the AG:lol::lol:... & Congress was routinely lied to.

LowRevs said:
What they do is largely secret to those outside the intelligence community, as it well should be.
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So they are above the law?

LowRevs said:
Interrogation techniques were legally analyzed by career attorneys in the justice department. When allegations were made they were investigated and at least one individual was punished. All oversight agents were notified of the methods and the results of the investigation. Guidelines were restated.
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That's just Bush/Cheney talking points. Let's investigate to see if any of it is true.

LowRevs said:
The reason to not investigate this now is that we are still at war and the investigation may further divulge methods, techniques and the identities of the people who use those methods and techniques.
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We will always be "at war" against terrorism so no investigation can ever be done?
LowRevs said:
s far as Cheney being criminal in his associations, no official legal action has been taken or is being evaluated.
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Cheney thwarted all investigations you idiot! (& his chief of staff ....LIBBY...perjured himself to keep the truth from coming out. He (Libby) was scheduled to goto prison but Bush commuted his sentence)
LowRevs said:
Not only does it appear political for Holder to pursue this but it also appears that he is consciously trying to do exactly what I stated is the reason not to do this. Does that make him an agent of our enemies? You answer that.
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So no administration should EVER be investigated for crimes they may have committed? (including Obama??) We are now a Monarchy?

LowRevs said:
The CIA are an agency that does "mission impossible" like missions for the people of the United States and does not deserve to be disrespected when they are doing their duty to the best of their ability.
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Again, so they are above the law, right?
LowRevs said:
Dick Cheney is an honorable and patriotic man. No charges have been filed against him which have held water. He also does not deserve to be disrespected for doing his duty to the best of his ability.
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Dick Cheney is a draft dodging scumbag with the blood of thousands of American GI's on his hands. The "Man" deserves too hang for treason & war crimes!
 
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Even Sen. McCain says Cheney is wrong.

Raw Story Update: Bush admin distorted McCain’s views on torture

Sen. John McCain disagrees with former Vice President Dick Cheney’s claim that enhanced interrogation techniques helped keep the country safe.

“I think the interrogations were in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the convention against torture that we ratified under President Reagan,” McCain told CBS’ Bob Schieffer Sunday.



I call that Check & Mate!
 
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