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Thread: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Originally Posted by Goobieman
    If The Obama Administration reverses/ceases the Bush Administration counter-terrorism efforts under contention, and a there is terrorist attack that would have been stopped through the continuation of those efforts, will you blame The Obama for creating the conditions that allowed said attack to happen?

    There it is right there post hoc ergo propter hoc.

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Originally Posted by Goobieman
    If The Obama Administration reverses/ceases the Bush Administration counter-terrorism efforts under contention, and a there is terrorist attack that would have been stopped through the continuation of those efforts, will you blame The Obama for creating the conditions that allowed said attack to happen?

    There it is right there post hoc ergo propter hoc.
    It doesnt matter how many times you post that, the same response covers it:

    Its a hypothetical.

    Like all hypotheticals, it assumes things that are possible, and then it asks for your reaction to them. Thus, there is no logical flaw.

    As such, you have expended a lot of time and effort to dodge the question.
    Why? Why are you afraid to answer the question?
    Last edited by Goobieman; 09-03-09 at 05:19 PM.

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post



    Then why hasn't the Obama administration prosecuted them, or even mentioned the possibility of it? I mean, since it's SO OBVIOUS that Bush et. al. lied about WMD then why aren't any "neo-cons" sitting before a jury? Or at least a committee? Hell, even a government tape recorder?
    Believe me......I share you anger & outrage at the evil monsters who lied us into a war & then turned our country into a 3rd world torture state.
    The problem is that they left such a mess that Obama finds little time to devote to tracking these monsters down but............With the new CIA investigations (backed by A. Gonzales).....Things are finally starting & will snowball into the investigations........Prosecutions........& incarcerations that we both want so badly!
    (Hang in there.......These things take time!)

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post


    Its a hypothetical.

    Like all hypotheticals, it assumes things that are possible, and then it asks for your reaction to them. Thus, there is no logical flaw.

    As such, you have expended a lot of time and effort to dodge the question.
    Why? Why are you afraid to answer the question?
    Its a hypothetical based on a post hoc ergo propter hoc. You're making an assumption based on another assumption being that somehow the torture program have stopped any plots when they haven't. Yes its a logical flaw. There's no point in answering the question considering its based on a logical fallacy.

    That's made a hypothetical saying if if I punched your neighbor and it was shown that that stopped al-qaida from beheading you would you blame your wife for stopping me?

    Just a nonsensical hypotethical much like your own.

    i know no matter how many times I explain it to you you still won't understand your logical flaw
    Last edited by PogueMoran; 09-03-09 at 05:21 PM.

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Believe me......I share you anger & outrage at the evil monsters who lied us into a war & then turned our country into a 3rd world torture state.
    The problem is that they left such a mess that Obama finds little time to devote to tracking these monsters down but............With the new CIA investigations (backed by A. Gonzales).....Things are finally starting & will snowball into the investigations........Prosecutions........& incarcerations that we both want so badly!
    (Hang in there.......These things take time!)
    Still stickin' around despite better things to do, I see.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Its a hypothetical based on a post hoc ergo propter hoc.
    I'm not at all surew why you dont understand that your argument here is meaningless, given that I'm not claiming that anything will or will not happen, but only suppose that it does.

    Supposing that it does happen negates, in its entirety, your complaint.

    So, really, you can either answer the question or stop wasting bandwidth.

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Still stickin' around despite better things to do, I see.
    Fun first...then work.

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I'm not at all surew why you dont understand that your argument here is meaningless, given that I'm not claiming that anything will or will not happen, but only suppose that it does.

    Supposing that it does happen negates, in its entirety, your complaint.

    So, really, you can either answer the question or stop wasting bandwidth.
    No you're making an opinion based claim and interjecting by saying "that it was shown to be prevented by bush policies". That's an opinion not based in fact that you interjected. That's why your question is bunk. You're basing it on a supposition that B happened because of A. Try rephrasing your question without interjecting your own opinion

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeFromWI View Post
    Publicly funded programs run by the government isn't socialist?

    News to me.
    Socialism is "a social system in which the means of producing and distributing goods are owned collectively and political power is exercised by the whole community." The mere existence of government programs does not constitute collective ownership and management of the means of production and distribution, and certainly not the common exercise of political power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    "Socialist" programs are those that promote or contain socialist elements, those in which the governmnt owns/controls the means of producing and distributing wealth, usually but not necessarily including a component that engages in the redistribution of wealth through the welfare state.
    No, that definition is almost worse. Apart from the fact that government ownership and control of the means of production is itself not sufficient for socialism because this can become antithetical to legitimate public management and exercise of political power, welfare programs do not constitute government ownership and management, much less socialism. In fact, given the role of the welfare state in sustaining macroeconomic stabilization in the capitalist economy as well as the physical efficiency of the working class, welfare state policies ultimately maintain the arrangement wherein the means of production are privately owned by providing benefits within that system...which is why liberal and social democratic capitalism are in fact greater foes of socialism than more rightist variants, contrary to popular belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    But I'll grant that nationalizing an industry is indeed a socialist measure.
    No, it isn't, because nationalization is not sufficient to establish public ownership and management.

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Does anybody on the face of the Earth still take Evil Dick serious? If so? That is pitiful
    ~Following My Own Flow~

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