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Thread: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Oh whats the matter you can't answer the question can you? So we had another attack and you didn't blame bush for it did you? So again how does your question have any relation if you can't look at the historical facts with two attacks happening on his watch plus attacks on our soldiers as well as the attack on our embassy.

    So is it because he stopped using the tactics or because of them?
    I ask a question about The Obama

    You respond by asking a question about Bush.
    Thus: Red herring, Misdirection.

    Stop dodging and answer the question I asked.

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Lets see...
    I ask a question about The Obama
    You respond by asking a question about Bush.
    Yep -- Red herring, Misdirection.

    Stop dodging and answer the question I asked.
    I did answer your question you're making a logical fallacy. I think you misunderstand what a red herring is. I'm not misdirecting this has everything to do with your question. You're making a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    I did answer your question you're making a logical fallacy.
    Yes, and I explained how your argument to that effect -- that is, your dodge -- was unsound.

    So, we're back to the question that you haven't answered.

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes, and I explained how your argument to that effect -- that is, your dodge -- was unsound.

    So, we're back to the question that you haven't answered.
    That's not a dodge. You're making an unsound logical fallacy. Just because one thing happens doesn't mean its related. Correlation does not equal causation.

    Another attack happened on Bush's watch and you ignored it. So no matter what you'd still claim Bush made us safe and because another attack is bound to happen eventually you'll conventiently blame it on the democrat. Again you fail to look at this logically.

    Which plots were stopped because of torture. You've still failed to answer this since the first time I openly asked this.
    Last edited by PogueMoran; 09-02-09 at 04:51 PM.

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    That's not a dodge.
    Arguing the givens is most certainly a dodge.

    You're making an unsound logical fallacy.
    No, I am not. See below.

    Just because one thing happens doesn't mean its related. Correlation does not equal causation.
    The point you miss is that the given ASSUMES that it DOES happen -- that the attack WOULD have been stopped had the Buch policies been in place. I'm not arguing that it WILL happen, I am asking what if it DOES happen. Thus, your post hoc complaint argument holds to water.

    Another attack happened on Bush's watch and you ignored it.
    Not sure hoe many more times I need to say this:
    You're trying to change the subject in an attemt to avoid the issue -- red herring.

    So, answer the question.

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Arguing the givens is most certainly a dodge.


    No, I am not. See below.
    Yeah you are. You're trying to argue that because B happens then it must be related to A and caused by it. But thus far you haven't proven that A actually worked.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The point you miss is that the given ASSUMES that it DOES happen -- that the attack WOULD have been stopped had the Buch policies been in place. I'm not arguing that it WILL happen, I am asking what if it DOES happen. Thus, your post hoc complaint argument holds to water.
    You're making the bad assumption considering that the embassy attack did happen when Bush policies were in place. That's why I'm asking you if they happened because or inspite of it. Again you're assuming B happens because of A.



    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Not sure hoe many more times I need to say this:
    You're trying to change the subject in an attemt to avoid the issue -- red herring.
    No, we're talking about whether his torture policy was effective because your whole premise is based on the torture policies being stopped somehow would be responsible for an attack when you have no proof of efficacy that they stopped any actual plots from happening.

    So again you're committing a logical fallacy. That's why I asked you the other question.

    How about the inverse if a 9/11 attack doesn't happen on Obama's watch would it because he stopped the torture?

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Yeah you are. You're trying to argue that because B happens then it must be related to A and caused by it. But thus far you haven't proven that A actually worked.
    I'm not arguing anything -- I'm setting up a hypothetical, with givens and then asking a question regarding that hypotherical.

    One of the givens is that the hypothetical attack WOULD have been stoipped by the policies in question, and was allowed to happen BECAUSE the policies did not stop them. Since there's no way for you to argue that such a thing is impossible, there's no falacy in that given.

    So, stop dodging the question.

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No, its not, for the reasons I explained. Your argument is only sound (and my premise is only flawed) if there is NO chance that the elimination of thse policies would allow an attack -- and there's NO way you can argue that.

    So, one more time -- please stop questioning the given and answer the question.
    OO, and it's Goobie tactic number 2, the cutting out of all the relevant information from a quote, hoping no one will notice.

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    OO, and it's Goobie tactic number 2, the cutting out of all the relevant information from a quote, hoping no one will notice.
    redress fallacy #6968:
    Assuming that just because I cut it, it was relevant.

    If you were paying any attention at all, you'd see that the part I cut was relevant in no way shape or form --either that, or you arent familiar with the definition of the term.

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    Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    redress fallacy #6968:
    Assuming that just because I cut it, it was relevant.

    If you were paying any attention at all, you'd see that the part I cut was relevant in no way shape or form --either that, or you arent familiar with the definition of the term.
    Sure it was, it explained why your premise is flawed. Your whole question relies on something unprovable being proven.

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