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Thread: Murdoch: unchecked BBC expansion is 'chilling'

  1. #31
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    Re: Murdoch: unchecked BBC expansion is 'chilling'

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    It depends.
    Where do you stand on accepted issues or rather issues that have a consensus amongst many of the public like ...

    Gay marriage, Abortion, Gay clergymen, Stem cell ... all those controversial issues i'd say the public is more than likely to fall on the liberal side

    No need to be so disheartened.
    I'm sure the country will be in safe hands with us liberals lol
    I disagree with all of those except perhaps stem cells and abortions. I don't think the liberals have one there at all. Gay clergymen is the business of Christians and there are still many opponents to GM. I'd say abortion is generally accepted but not to the level and not with the laissez faire attitude many liberals would like.

    Obviously in other areas like British culture and multiculturalism and family values I'd say we had might have an upper hand.

    Then there are areas where I'm not too interested or even oppose like capital punishment, harsh approach to crime, drugs and such where I think the conservative approach could easily be the more popular one. I wouldn't be surprised if a majority thinks you should castrate sex offenders.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 08-29-09 at 12:37 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  2. #32
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    Re: Murdoch: unchecked BBC expansion is 'chilling'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I disagree with all of those except perhaps stem cells and abortions. I don't think the liberals have one there at all. Gay clergymen is the business of Christians and there are still many opponents to GM. I'd say abortion is generally accepted but not to the level and not with the laissez faire attitude many liberals would like.

    Obviously in other areas like British culture and multiculturalism and family values I'd say we had might have an upper hand.

    Then there are areas where I'm not too interested or even oppose like capital punishment, harsh approach to crime, drugs and such where I think the conservative approach could easily be the more popular one. I wouldn't be surprised if a majority thinks you should castrate sex offenders.
    I'd admit conservatives have the upper hand on things like EU, Crime and punishment (Liberal politicans have this BS idea of only 'rehabilitation' and the law seems to be more on the side of criminals than victims)

    Everything else, liberals have the upperhand.
    Family is a toss up.
    Conservatives imo are highly judgemental of single mothers etc.
    Who wants some tosser telling you 'You done it wrong'

    Some drugs should be legalised.
    Making them illegal has little effect and has strengthened the black market and criminal world imo
    But that is one area conservatives sadly dominate foolishly


  3. #33
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    Re: Murdoch: unchecked BBC expansion is 'chilling'

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I'd admit conservatives have the upper hand on things like EU, Crime and punishment (Liberal politicans have this BS idea of only 'rehabilitation' and the law seems to be more on the side of criminals than victims).
    Interesting how we're reversing our positions somewhat. I'm not really into harsher punishments and such, I don't think it will work. You are right though about the people, I'm surprised capital punishment has been out of use for so long.
    Everything else, liberals have the upperhand.
    Family is a toss up.
    Conservatives imo are highly judgemental of single mothers etc.
    Who wants some tosser telling you 'You done it wrong'
    Yes but quite a few people agree with them. Most Mail, Sun, Telegraph and Times readers would I'd say. They feel single mum's and similar are being rewarded for their stupidity with tax payers money. I'm not sure I agree with their reasoning on this but I do believe in traditional families, hell I believe in close extended families and partial revival of the paterfamilias.

    Some drugs should be legalised.
    Making them illegal has little effect and has strengthened the black market and criminal world imo
    But that is one area conservatives sadly dominate foolishly
    I agree with the fact it is foolish for soft drugs like weed and magic mushrooms( I once heard a chief constanble say his police would probably do nothing if they found someone with magic mushrooms, it wasn't worth the bother.) and I agree that however conservatives dominate. I don't think harder drugs should be legal, for one thing I don't want them to be developed by big business(perhaps I paid too close attention to Brave New World), but I favour a more rehabilitation based approach to taking them on.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 08-29-09 at 01:06 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #34
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    Re: Murdoch: unchecked BBC expansion is 'chilling'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Interesting how we're reversing our positions somewhat. I'm not really into harsher punishments and such, I don't think it will work. You are right though about the people, I'm surprised capital punishment has been out of use for so long.

    I'm for harsh punishments.
    Prison is for punishment not bloody 'have a holiday time'

    Yes but quite a few people agree with them. Most Mail, Sun, Telegraph and Times readers would I'd say. They feel single mum's and similar are being rewarded for their stupidity with tax payers money. I'm not sure I agree with their reasoning on this but I do believe in traditional families, hell I believe in close extended families and partial revival of the paterfamilias.
    Dailymail readers are ****tards.
    The type who probably bitch about single mothers and have a perfect little nuclear family and then go work and shag the secretary.
    I hate conservatives or anyone for that matter who think they are so damn good that they can lord it over the rest of us normal folks.
    I know teenagers who have both parents are still off the rails and teenagers with a single parent and have studied hard and not in the trouble of the law.
    Tories over here love to sit there and generalize up there on their pedestal.

    Alot of Conservatives do.
    'Don't abort'. What? Are they going to look after the children? I doubt it.
    They would be the first to jump and attack taxes which would be needed for foster and social care tbh.

    I am quite traditional in that sense.
    I was raised not only by my Mom but also by my grandmother and my extended family. They all did, as a community thing.

    I agree with the fact it is foolish for soft drugs like weed and magic mushrooms( I once heard a chief constanble say his police would probably do nothing if they found someone with magic mushrooms, it wasn't worth the bother.) and I agree that however conservatives dominate. I don't think harder drugs should be legal, for one thing I don't want them to be developed by big business(perhaps I paid too close attention to Brave New World), but I far a more rehabilitation based approach to taking them on.
    What police officer would arrest people with weed?
    But conservatives and DM readers love to jump on any talk of legalizing soft drugs as some sort of social decline rather than logical policy.


  5. #35
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    Re: Murdoch: unchecked BBC expansion is 'chilling'

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Dailymail readers are ****tards.
    The type who probably bitch about single mothers and have a perfect little nuclear family and then go work and shag the secretary.
    I hate conservatives or anyone for that matter who think they are so damn good that they can lord it over the rest of us normal folks.
    I know teenagers who have both parents are still off the rails and teenagers with a single parent and have studied hard and not in the trouble of the law.
    Tories over here love to sit there and generalize up there on their pedestal.
    On the one hand I do disagree with some of the hyperbole they use but I'm not a fan of council-estate single mothers who don't bother taking precautions and then don't seem too interested in working. I just realise that these are a smaller proportion than the likes of the Mail make out.

    I believe in reviving the older more corporate forms of the family, give the parents or more properly the elders a lot more power I say until well after. In Republican Rome you could be 40 but if the Paterfamilias was still alive or it wasn't you then you still had to bow to his authority in some things. Make a lot of property family property and give the family a lot more functions and then see if teenagers would be as quick to go off the rails.
    Alot of Conservatives do.
    'Don't abort'. What? Are they going to look after the children? I doubt it.
    They would be the first to jump and attack taxes which would be needed for foster and social care tbh.
    I agree here, although there is a divide between social conservatism and economic philosophies called conservatism. I believe in charity over state welfare but if it took state welfare to support these kids then I'd support that.
    I am quite traditional in that sense.
    I was raised not only by my Mom but also by my grandmother and my extended family. They all did, as a community thing.
    Interesting, it is something I very much support. Not that it is generally achievable without significant economic as well as political and social changes.

    What police officer would arrest people with weed?
    But conservatives and DM readers love to jump on any talk of legalizing soft drugs as some sort of social decline rather than logical policy.
    It is a shame. Sometimes they have some points such as Hitchen's attacks on the media's glamourising of drugs but I still don't agree with them on policy.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  6. #36
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    Re: Murdoch: unchecked BBC expansion is 'chilling'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    On the one hand I do disagree with some of the hyperbole they use but I'm not a fan of council-estate single mothers who don't bother taking precautions and then don't seem too interested in working. I just realise that these are a smaller proportion than the likes of the Mail make out.
    The percentage is very small. Very small indeed but DM likes to strikes fear into people whether it is immigration, abortion or benefits.
    Almost everyday there is some sort of big headline with attempts at fearmongering in the text.
    That is the daily mail's bread and butter.

    I believe in reviving the older more corporate forms of the family, give the parents or more properly the elders a lot more power I say until well after. In Republican Rome you could be 40 but if the Paterfamilias was still alive or it wasn't you then you still had to bow to his authority in some things. Make a lot of property family property and give the family a lot more functions and then see if teenagers would be as quick to go off the rails.
    You'd be very surprised but that is highly similar to how Somalis do business.
    I defer to my elders not only my parents.
    And in Somaliland, we have a clan like system in which family have alot of say and we own alot of land but it is a family shared ownage and it is passed down from parent to child if they take the responsibilities of the field and suceed. They can reap the rewards and benefits that come with it
    In the west children and teenagers are so damn useless. What can they do?
    They have been weakened and made into pussies by the law and child services.

    In Somaliland, from the time you are 9/10. You have learned to cook and look after yourself and as time progresses, more responsibility and work will happen. Discipline is paramount. If we do not have discipline, we will fail everywhere else. Discipline must start from the home and boy, my family never held back in ensuring we followed rules.

    Hell when i explain to some of my friends how it is in E Africa, they looked shocked and said it was child labour

    I agree here, although there is a divide between social conservatism and economic philosophies called conservatism. I believe in charity over state welfare but if it took state welfare to support these kids then I'd support that.
    Fair enough but would every conservative? I doubt it

    Interesting, it is something I very much support. Not that it is generally achievable without significant economic as well as political and social changes.
    Not really
    Africans not just Somalis are quite family orientated as are Asians in many respects.
    My Grandmother lived with us when i grew up. It is absolutely unthinkable to send a relative to a home to die alone. Ridiculous imo.
    And i will always remain my moms child no matter how old i am lol

    It is a shame. Sometimes they have some points such as Hitchen's attacks on the media's glamourising of drugs but I still don't agree with them on policy.
    I agree on that but that does not take away from the legitimate argument of legalising some drugs


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    Re: Murdoch: unchecked BBC expansion is 'chilling'

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    The percentage is very small. Very small indeed but DM likes to strikes fear into people whether it is immigration, abortion or benefits.
    Almost everyday there is some sort of big headline with attempts at fearmongering in the text.
    That is the daily mail's bread and butter.



    You'd be very surprised but that is highly similar to how Somalis do business.
    I defer to my elders not only my parents.
    And in Somaliland, we have a clan like system in which family have alot of say and we own alot of land but it is a family shared ownage and it is passed down from parent to child if they take the responsibilities of the field and suceed. They can reap the rewards and benefits that come with it
    In the west children and teenagers are so damn useless. What can they do?
    They have been weakened and made into pussies by the law and child services.

    In Somaliland, from the time you are 9/10. You have learned to cook and look after yourself and as time progresses, more responsibility and work will happen. Discipline is paramount. If we do not have discipline, we will fail everywhere else. Discipline must start from the home and boy, my family never held back in ensuring we followed rules.

    Hell when i explain to some of my friends how it is in E Africa, they looked shocked and said it was child labour
    I agree with that Somalian system from the rough outline you have given. It is important to balance it of course, we don't want a system like medieval, highland Scotland where the clan was everything. There needs to be other authorities in society with similar pulls as well as the family and the state such as occupational associations, churches or similar organisations, local community, voluntary associations and such.

    Fair enough but would every conservative? I doubt it
    It depends most social conservatives and traditionalists would. There are people called conservatives mainly for their economic views and who are socially liberal as yourself. You can see many here.

    Many social conservatives wrongly support corporate-capitalism, they believe it is relatively free market, a very wrong assumption, and simply don't understand its massively negative effects on the traditional society they are trying to conserve. These do tend to believe healthily on charity as preferable, which I believe is the correct assumption but yes sometimes they would unhelpfully withhold state help when it is really needed.


    Not really
    Africans not just Somalis are quite family orientated as are Asians in many respects.
    My Grandmother lived with us when i grew up. It is absolutely unthinkable to send a relative to a home to die alone. Ridiculous imo.
    And i will always remain my moms child no matter how old i am lol
    The thing is that a family like any associations requires functions to stay together indefinitely. The state has taken many of the families traditional functions and devolved many more on the individual and the growth of capitalism and its corporate variety has worn down many of the families economic functions. I don't think all the traditional functions need to be given back, I think the state for instance should punish most criminals, but some are certainly required, including key economic ones.

    The traditional family was largely self-sufficient and hence was opposed bitterly by capitalism as an area where its money relationships could not enter despite the obvious fact that if it completely wore down the family it would have social chaos which would undermine such a victory. Therefore I feel it is essential we give some of this economic power back to families, I feel that decentralist and libertarian solutions that allow a lot easier ownership of productive property are needed.

    I agree on that but that does not take away from the legitimate argument of legalising some drugs
    Indeed. There is little reason for having weed or magic mushrooms illegal. There are some absurd illegal drugs like kava kava the traditional pacific islanders drink that is somewhat similar to alcohol but actually makes the takers sedate and calm and if they drink too much they fall into a deep, refreshing sleep and has no serious dangers. It would be an excellent alternative to alcohol with all this binge drinking trouble but I believe it is illegal in Britain and highly controlled in Australia.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #38
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    Re: Murdoch: unchecked BBC expansion is 'chilling'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I agree with that Somalian system from the rough outline you have given. It is important to balance it of course, we don't want a system like medieval, highland Scotland where the clan was everything. There needs to be other authorities in society with similar pulls as well as the family and the state such as occupational associations, churches or similar organisations, local community, voluntary associations and such.
    Ah well my system is just medieval.
    Infact if you want de centralisation, E Africa is the place to go.
    Government has next to no power.
    It is locals/villages/clans that keep power and order

    It depends most social conservatives and traditionalists would. There are people called conservatives mainly for their economic views and who are socially liberal as yourself. You can see many here.
    Am i economically conservative?
    I'd put myself as liberal so that is quite a surprise

    I don't think all the traditional functions need to be given back, I think the state for instance should punish most criminals, but some are certainly required, including key economic ones.
    Those who commit crime are more likely to do so for economic reasons and re offend again.
    Govt. does not have a proper system to help those who left jail get work.
    Not many people will hire those with a criminal record.

    Indeed. There is little reason for having weed or magic mushrooms illegal. There are some absurd illegal drugs like kava kava the traditional pacific islanders drink that is somewhat similar to alcohol but actually makes the takers sedate and calm and if they drink too much they fall into a deep, refreshing sleep and has no serious dangers. It would be an excellent alternative to alcohol with all this binge drinking trouble but I believe it is illegal in Britain and highly controlled in Australia.
    That would be better than alcohol and i can actually drink it! Seems like a good reason to legalise it lol
    Last edited by Laila; 08-29-09 at 02:02 AM.


  9. #39
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    Re: Murdoch: unchecked BBC expansion is 'chilling'

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post


    Am i economically conservative?
    I'd put myself as liberal so that is quite a surprise
    I didn't mean to suggest you were, sorry if you were offended.

    No I just meant there are people who support your right to snort cocaine but are economically clones of Thatcher.


    Those who commit crime are more likely to do so for economic reasons and re offend again.
    Govt. does not have a proper system to help those who left jail get work.
    Not many people will hire those with a criminal record.
    It is a shame, personally I support a rehabilitation approach.

    That would be better than alcohol and i can actually drink it! Seems like a good reason to legalise it lol
    It doesn't taste that good--- it is powdered plant root mixed with water and it isn't the kind of thing you'd drink if you were going clubbing but it would help with binge drinking and why it is illegal, seeing as it has thousands of years worth of use in the pacific islands, I can't understand.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Murdoch: unchecked BBC expansion is 'chilling'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I didn't mean to suggest you were, sorry if you were offended.

    No I just meant there are people who support your right to snort cocaine but are economically clones of Thatcher.

    It is a shame, personally I support a rehabilitation approach.

    It doesn't taste that good--- it is powdered plant root mixed with water and it isn't the kind of thing you'd drink if you were going clubbing but it would help with binge drinking and why it is illegal, seeing as it has thousands of years worth of use in the pacific islands, I can't understand.
    LOL
    Heartbroken i was. All my hard work gone

    Dislike some policies of Thatcher, think she did good on others.
    What she did do tho was help make UK a more materialistic and selfish society imo.

    Hmm ... then no i'll pass on knocking myself out and stick with sleeping pills which probably taste better and has the same effect


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