Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 75

Thread: 'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed

  1. #41
    Sage
    Gill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    The Derby City
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 10:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    8,686

    Re: 'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by mixedmedia View Post
    I went on to point out that you are already paying for other people's healthcare.

    And I am far less than interested in your 'problems,' thanks very much.

    Your baiting is insipid, in fact, from here on out I refuse to respond in a serious fashion to any responses that begin with any variant of the phrase 'you liberals.'

    and here are your facts:


    NCEA: Statistics at a Glance
    Just as I said earlier... all in nursing homes, not hospitals.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  2. #42
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ventura California
    Last Seen
    11-15-11 @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,706

    Re: 'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed

    Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    The notion that forcing others to pay for our healthcare problems as being a solution to better healthcare is farcical at best.

    This has always been my problem with "Liberal" thinking and problem solving; it is always that Government can create a better solution and with that, if only we confiscate enough wealth can we solve all of society’s trials and tribulations. But what ends up happening is that the REALITY is that Government makes it worse and they will NEVER, EVER have enough of our confiscated wealth.

    I would think that after six decades of these nonsensical notions and false solutions, people would be smarter than that to fall for it all over again.


    Quote Originally Posted by mixedmedia View Post
    I went on to point out that you are already paying for other people's healthcare.
    Really, how am I already paying for other people’s healthcare?

    Quote Originally Posted by mixedmedia View Post
    And I am far less than interested in your 'problems,' thanks very much.

    Your baiting is insipid, in fact, from here on out I refuse to respond in a serious fashion to any responses that begin with any variant of the phrase 'you liberals.'
    Your hyperbolic emotional outburst aside, what does this have to do with my comments? Where in my response did I type the words “you Liberals?” Are you now claiming you are NOT a “liberal?” If not, why then do you use emotions rather than logic to make your tragically failed points and have the “liberal” tag in your profile? Don’t be ashamed by it, embrace it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mixedmedia View Post
    and here are your facts:


    NCEA: Statistics at a Glance
    What does this have to do with the debate? Here, let me help you; NOTHING.

    Now this is your original statement I responded to:

    Quote:Originally Posted by mixedmedia
    There is also the risk of being uninsured and sitting under $25,000+ debt essentially for the benefit of a simple scan that I would have been happy to wait for. This is my situation.


    What people in other nations are waiting for are critical operations which are unavailable which forces them to go outside their systems and PAY again in some other country (America for example) where they can get the critical operation. For those unfortunate enough to not have the ADDITIONAL wealth to go outside of the system, their risk is dying while waiting on that list.

    How is this a better solution than what we have now?

  3. #43
    Sage
    kaya'08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    British Turk
    Last Seen
    05-12-14 @ 01:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    6,363

    Re: 'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Well, I'm not but way to many are, especially here in the south.

    We southerners love our pig fat.
    Everything is fried too, i hear.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  4. #44
    iniquitably employed
    mixedmedia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Naples, FL
    Last Seen
    09-10-11 @ 11:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,823

    Re: 'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    The notion that forcing others to pay for our healthcare problems as being a solution to better healthcare is farcical at best.

    This has always been my problem with "Liberal" thinking and problem solving; it is always that Government can create a better solution and with that, if only we confiscate enough wealth can we solve all of society’s trials and tribulations. But what ends up happening is that the REALITY is that Government makes it worse and they will NEVER, EVER have enough of our confiscated wealth.

    I would think that after six decades of these nonsensical notions and false solutions, people would be smarter than that to fall for it all over again.




    Really, how am I already paying for other people’s healthcare?



    Your hyperbolic emotional outburst aside, what does this have to do with my comments? Where in my response did I type the words “you Liberals?” Are you now claiming you are NOT a “liberal?” If not, why then do you use emotions rather than logic to make your tragically failed points and have the “liberal” tag in your profile? Don’t be ashamed by it, embrace it.



    What does this have to do with the debate? Here, let me help you; NOTHING.

    Now this is your original statement I responded to:

    Quote:Originally Posted by mixedmedia
    There is also the risk of being uninsured and sitting under $25,000+ debt essentially for the benefit of a simple scan that I would have been happy to wait for. This is my situation.


    What people in other nations are waiting for are critical operations which are unavailable which forces them to go outside their systems and PAY again in some other country (America for example) where they can get the critical operation. For those unfortunate enough to not have the ADDITIONAL wealth to go outside of the system, their risk is dying while waiting on that list.

    How is this a better solution than what we have now?
    You provide me with the facts that considerably more people are waiting on proper treatment for serious conditions in state provided health care systems than there are in the US. Did you read the article in the OP? If you weren't so myopically focused on proving liberals wrong, perhaps you would have a clear enough mind to read my previous posts as they were intended. No, instead of making discussion of what is a serious issue, you want to play combative pattycake with a random person on the internet. Wow. nice.

    And whenever a person enters the hospital in this country, receives treatment, and qualifies for medicaid you, the taxpayer, PAY FOR THEIR HEALTHCARE. Whether you like it or not. But, perhaps, if you had read my posts without the emotional, political reaction that was probably spurred by looking at the word 'liberal' off to the left there you would have been able to respond without making a fool of yourself. Sorry about that.
    Underneath the concrete, The dream is still alive
    A hundred million lifetimes, A world that never dies - Talking Heads, City of Dreams

    =|:{|

  5. #45
    iniquitably employed
    mixedmedia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Naples, FL
    Last Seen
    09-10-11 @ 11:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,823

    Re: 'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Just as I said earlier... all in nursing homes, not hospitals.
    And how does that impact the fact that this is a nursing issue and not a NHS issue?
    Underneath the concrete, The dream is still alive
    A hundred million lifetimes, A world that never dies - Talking Heads, City of Dreams

    =|:{|

  6. #46
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ventura California
    Last Seen
    11-15-11 @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,706

    Re: 'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by mixedmedia View Post
    You provide me with the facts that considerably more people are waiting on proper treatment for serious conditions in state provided health care systems than there are in the US. Did you read the article in the OP? If you weren't so myopically focused on proving liberals wrong, perhaps you would have a clear enough mind to read my previous posts as they were intended. No, instead of making discussion of what is a serious issue, you want to play combative pattycake with a random person on the internet. Wow. nice.

    And whenever a person enters the hospital in this country, receives treatment, and qualifies for medicaid you, the taxpayer, PAY FOR THEIR HEALTHCARE. Whether you like it or not. But, perhaps, if you had read my posts without the emotional, political reaction that was probably spurred by looking at the word 'liberal' off to the left there you would have been able to respond without making a fool of yourself. Sorry about that.
    Take some time off of your emotional rollercoaster and do some reading; then you will become informed:

    http://ff.org/centers/ccfsp/pdf/CCSFP-PP-Winter-03.pdf

    Threat to patient care as third of hospitals in red - Times Online



    PRIVATE AID TO CUT WAIT FOR TESTS from 25 Jul 2005 - mirror.co.uk

    The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care by David Gratzer, City Journal Summer 2007

    Featured Article - WSJ.com

    SOCIALIZED MEDICINE: July 2005

    Buyer Beware: The Failure of Single-Payer Health Care

    Just a tiny sampling:

    The Health Care Quality Problem
    So what has happened in Canada? Why is it that we've gone from being very bullish on this health care system to having great reservations? Part of it is that Canadians read newspapers, and it doesn't much matter whether you're on the west coast or the east coast; it doesn't much matter whether you're a Globe and Mail reader, or a National Post reader; every single day, there are stories describing the system.

    I've just randomly chosen a few stories that have come to light recently.

    •The head of trauma care at Vancouver's largest hospital announces that they turn away more cases than any other center in North America. He's quoted as saying this would be unheard of in the United States.


    •In Manitoba, which is my former home province, the premier--the political equivalent of a governor--concedes that his pledge to end hallway medicine has fallen short. Hallway medicine is the phenomenon where the emergency rooms are so filled with patients that people are forced to lie on stretchers in hallways, often for days. Overcrowding is a periodic problem. In fact, the overcrowding is worse than last year. The community is rocked by the death of a 74-year old man who had waited in the emergency room for three hours and had not been seen.


    •New Brunswick announces that they will send cancer patients south to the United States for radiation therapy. New Brunswick, a small maritime province, is the seventh to publicly announce its plans to send patients south. In the best health care system in the world, the vast majority of provinces now rely on American health care to provide radiation therapy. Provinces do this because the clinically recommended waiting time for treatment is often badly exceeded. Ordinarily, oncologists suggest that there should be a two-week gap between the initial consult by the family doctor and the referral to the oncologist, and then two weeks more from the oncologist to the commencement of radiation therapy. In most Canadian provinces, we exceed that by one to two months, sometimes three.


    •In Alberta earlier this year, a young man dies because of the profound emergency room overcrowding. He is 23. On a winter's night, he develops pain in his flank and goes to the local emergency room. It is so crowded that he grows impatient and goes to another. There, he waits six hours. No one sees him. Exhausted and frustrated, he goes home. The pain continues, so he finally decides to go to the local community hospital. It's too late: His appendix ruptured. He dies from the complications hours later.
    Those are some of the examples of the cruelty of what goes on in Canada. But they don't give you the flavor of the insanity--and I'll use that term in a nonprofessional sense--of the Canadian system.

    MRI scanners are very difficult to get in Canada. There are long wait times. In my book, I talk about a political struggle on Vancouver Island where the wait time for a non-urgent MRI scan was over a year--"non-urgent" being defined by government officials, not by physicians. In the province I now live in, Ontario, there are long wait times for MRIs.

    Part of the problem is that we have so few of these scanners. Canada per capita has as many MRI scanners as Colombia and Mexico. It wouldn't be fair to try and compare us to the United States or Western Europe. And the few MRIs that we have tend to run on bankers' hours. MRI scanners are expensive to operate. So if an MRI scanner stops dealing with humans at 5 p.m., there are still hours you could run the scanner.

  7. #47
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Last Seen
    09-22-11 @ 11:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    484

    Re: 'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    There is another thread about the abysmal care of expectant mothers under the English NHS system. In that thread, many lefties and a few Brits did everything possible to kill the messenger rather than dispute the message.

    Here is another story on the caregivers at NHS. I realize that the vast majority of doctors and nurses in the British system do everything possible to provide proper care to their patients, but obviously there is a large number that need to find another line of work.

    I read that the NHS has a staff of 1.4 million, most of whom are bureaucrats. In my opinion, that is the fear of many here in the U.S. We all see how bloated government entities become. Just look at our school systems. National health care is NOT the answer.



    'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed - Telegraph

    What do you think the chances are of seeing this in our mainstream media? Slim or none??

    The Republican Party had 8 years to fix a very broken US healthcare system and they chose to fight the Iraq war instead. Now the Democrats are in power and they get to choose how the fix happens. Choices.

    The British healthcare system is a blessing we Americans would be very lucky to have. I had my son in a hospital in Aberdeen, Scotland and was treated with the finest care.

    The money my family spends on healthcare here in the US is more than would be deducted by the NHS in the UK for the National Health System. So the idea that it's going to cost us more is ridiculous.

    The biggest issue I have with the US scheme is that Health Insurance is tied to our jobs. That is a travesty in my opinion. And anyone who throws COBRA at me will be laughed at. I could go on for hours on this subject. It's one which cheeses me off royally.

  8. #48
    iniquitably employed
    mixedmedia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Naples, FL
    Last Seen
    09-10-11 @ 11:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,823

    Re: 'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Take some time off of your emotional rollercoaster and do some reading; then you will become informed:

    http://ff.org/centers/ccfsp/pdf/CCSFP-PP-Winter-03.pdf

    Threat to patient care as third of hospitals in red - Times Online



    PRIVATE AID TO CUT WAIT FOR TESTS from 25 Jul 2005 - mirror.co.uk

    The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care by David Gratzer, City Journal Summer 2007

    Featured Article - WSJ.com

    SOCIALIZED MEDICINE: July 2005

    Buyer Beware: The Failure of Single-Payer Health Care

    Just a tiny sampling:

    The Health Care Quality Problem
    So what has happened in Canada? Why is it that we've gone from being very bullish on this health care system to having great reservations? Part of it is that Canadians read newspapers, and it doesn't much matter whether you're on the west coast or the east coast; it doesn't much matter whether you're a Globe and Mail reader, or a National Post reader; every single day, there are stories describing the system.

    I've just randomly chosen a few stories that have come to light recently.

    •The head of trauma care at Vancouver's largest hospital announces that they turn away more cases than any other center in North America. He's quoted as saying this would be unheard of in the United States.


    •In Manitoba, which is my former home province, the premier--the political equivalent of a governor--concedes that his pledge to end hallway medicine has fallen short. Hallway medicine is the phenomenon where the emergency rooms are so filled with patients that people are forced to lie on stretchers in hallways, often for days. Overcrowding is a periodic problem. In fact, the overcrowding is worse than last year. The community is rocked by the death of a 74-year old man who had waited in the emergency room for three hours and had not been seen.


    •New Brunswick announces that they will send cancer patients south to the United States for radiation therapy. New Brunswick, a small maritime province, is the seventh to publicly announce its plans to send patients south. In the best health care system in the world, the vast majority of provinces now rely on American health care to provide radiation therapy. Provinces do this because the clinically recommended waiting time for treatment is often badly exceeded. Ordinarily, oncologists suggest that there should be a two-week gap between the initial consult by the family doctor and the referral to the oncologist, and then two weeks more from the oncologist to the commencement of radiation therapy. In most Canadian provinces, we exceed that by one to two months, sometimes three.


    •In Alberta earlier this year, a young man dies because of the profound emergency room overcrowding. He is 23. On a winter's night, he develops pain in his flank and goes to the local emergency room. It is so crowded that he grows impatient and goes to another. There, he waits six hours. No one sees him. Exhausted and frustrated, he goes home. The pain continues, so he finally decides to go to the local community hospital. It's too late: His appendix ruptured. He dies from the complications hours later.
    Those are some of the examples of the cruelty of what goes on in Canada. But they don't give you the flavor of the insanity--and I'll use that term in a nonprofessional sense--of the Canadian system.

    MRI scanners are very difficult to get in Canada. There are long wait times. In my book, I talk about a political struggle on Vancouver Island where the wait time for a non-urgent MRI scan was over a year--"non-urgent" being defined by government officials, not by physicians. In the province I now live in, Ontario, there are long wait times for MRIs.

    Part of the problem is that we have so few of these scanners. Canada per capita has as many MRI scanners as Colombia and Mexico. It wouldn't be fair to try and compare us to the United States or Western Europe. And the few MRIs that we have tend to run on bankers' hours. MRI scanners are expensive to operate. So if an MRI scanner stops dealing with humans at 5 p.m., there are still hours you could run the scanner.
    I have questioned the legitimacy of the OP's article in regards to its relevance to the NHS in the UK. If anyone is being emotional it is you and your insistence that I have a diametrically opposed argument to yours in regards to healthcare.

    I have looked at every one of your links and I have read nothing particularly alarming about the healthcare systems in question. With the exception of your rightwing editorials, which, come on. What do you expect me to do with those. If I had the motivation to do so, I could come up with just as many articles detailing the difficulties of Americans getting appropriate healthcare in the face of opposition from overwhelmed systems and their insurance companies. Get real. No matter what position you hold, you can go out there and find information out there to back it up. Some of it accurate, some of it politically manipulated.

    I'd rather keep things simple.

    Average US citizens with insurance coverage die with treatable conditions because of the problems with our healthcare system.

    All US taxpayers pay for the healthcare of poor Americans...now.

    Having to wait '20 weeks' for non-critical medical testing (read your links) is not the problem, in fact, I would guarantee that the American attitude of entitlement to that kind of treatment is part of the problem.

    My beef is with the people who are so all of a sudden up in arms over the idea that we might make a move towards state sponsored healthcare when there are obvious flaws with the current system and we are already paying for the healthcare costs of a significant portion of the population. And I am being emotional? Sorry, I've got no patience for that kind of dialogue.
    Underneath the concrete, The dream is still alive
    A hundred million lifetimes, A world that never dies - Talking Heads, City of Dreams

    =|:{|

  9. #49
    Guru
    BWG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    South Coast
    Last Seen
    12-04-17 @ 11:59 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,203

    Re: 'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed

    First off there is no proposal whatsoever for a NHS type health care system. Smoke and mirrors.

    There is a proposal for a public option health insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by mixedmedia
    Having to wait '20 weeks' for non-critical medical testing...
    Sure beats not having a waiting list to get on, doesn't it.

    BTW, hope you got the medical attention you needed.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

  10. #50
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: 'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Is it now ...
    Source?

    BBC is hardly 'far left'
    It does have a definite liberal and europhile agenda though. I remember when they kicked off Sean Gabb in a free speech debate because he forced one of the other debaters to admit they thought Brits were so racist that without hate speech laws trampling their free speech they'd quickly devolve into open bigotry.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •