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Thread: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

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    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    tell it to the president of the canadian medical assn

    "(Canadians) have to understand that the system that we have right now - if it keeps on going without change - is not sustainable," said Doig
    Oh golly Prof, there you go again confusing the Socialists with those pesky facts again.

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    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Oh golly Prof, there you go again confusing the Socialists with those pesky facts again.
    He claims he's proved the Canadian system is nearing for bankruptcy when he's offered no evidence to support this assertion. He posted an article about the British NHS and used it to make incorrect assertions about the quality of service offered to expectant mothers. I'd actually be interested in finally seeing some facts, to be quite frank.
    "I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
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    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by Anima View Post
    He claims he's proved the Canadian system is nearing for bankruptcy when he's offered no evidence to support this assertion. He posted an article about the British NHS and used it to make incorrect assertions about the quality of service offered to expectant mothers. I'd actually be interested in finally seeing some facts, to be quite frank.
    Anima, facts are very easy to come by; however, one has to have an open mind to seek them out.

    Here is an indisputable fact; whenever Government gets involved with things, they distort markets and typically make things worse. They compound this with the never ending complaint that if they could just get MORE revenue, they could fix things.

    If private industry ran like Government did, they would all be bankrupt.

    Remember this, when a private company screws up, they either go out of business, or get bought up by more efficient enterprises. With Government, there is no competition, there is no incentive to innovate or improve and they will never stop needing ever greater funds to keep their programs going regardless of the lack of any credible success with them.

    That isn't "partisan", it isn't hyperbole; it is just a FACT.

    Now we can pretend that somewhere out there, there is this "perfect" entity and that if we just got the right intellects into power to run things, everything would work out perfectly. But alas, you and I have to live in the REAL world and face these REALITIES; when it comes to your well-being, your health and your prosperity, YOU are the best at deciding how to get there and the system that permits you to seek the education, the choices and levels of prosperity you seek, although less than perfect, is the best way to obtain them.

    I cannot fathom anyone who is educated wanting to become a dependent ward of the state; yet that is part of what we are debating today and that politicians are arguing and trying to scare people into voting for.
    Last edited by Truth Detector; 08-28-09 at 09:26 PM.

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    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Anima, facts are very easy to come by; however, one has to have an open mind to seek them out.

    Here is an indisputable fact; whenever Government gets involved with things, they distort markets and typically make things worse. They compound this with the never ending complaint that if they could just get MORE revenue, they could fix things.

    If private industry ran like Government did, they would all be bankrupt.

    Remember this, when a private company screws up, they either go out of business, or get bought up by more efficient enterprises. With Government, there is no competition, there is no incentive to innovate or improve and they will never stop needing ever greater funds to keep their programs going regardless of the lack of any credible success with them.

    That isn't "partisan", it isn't hyperbole; it is just a FACT.

    Now we can pretend that somewhere out there, there is this "perfect" entity and that if we just got the right intellects into power to run things, everything would work out perfectly. But alas, you and I have to live in the REAL world and face these REALITIES; when it comes to your well-being, your health and your prosperity, YOU are the best at deciding how to get there and the system that permits you to seek the education, the choices and levels of prosperity you seek, although less than perfect, is the best way to obtain them.

    I cannot fathom anyone who is educated wanting to become a dependent ward of the state; yet that is part of what we are debating today and that politicians are arguing and trying to scare people into voting for.
    You seem to assume nationalised health care restricts choice and freedom, which makes me think you know very little about how most nationalised care systems are actually run. An NHS patient can see any doctor at their surgery, can switch surgeries if they please to access more doctors, can reuest a second opinion and ideally plays an active role in their own treatment and ensuring their own continuing well-being.

    We don't need to worry about whether the nearest hospital is in our insurance companies' network. We don't need to worry about facing bankruptcy as a result of catastrophic illness. We live longer than you do, on average. 93% of us are happy with our care, acording to the latest survey by the Quality Care Commission. As for the government being unable to run things efficeintly? It's the private sector that has us down a collective financial hole ata the minute. Claiming that the government can't possibly run anything as well as the private sector is a massive, and incorrect over-generlisation.

    So why don't you actually look into how government run care works in other nations before talking about how nothing can be perfect and the government can't be trusted and they'll destroy it and every other point that's being floated around by UHC opponents? The NHS has a huge amount of online publications, and I assume you could find likewise for the Canadian system, or perhaps even the Cuban one.
    Last edited by Anima; 08-28-09 at 09:44 PM.
    "I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
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    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    too abstruse, too theoretical

    politics is FEET on the GROUND

    president of cma ADMITS, CONCEDES---the system is "IMPLODING"

    the numbers are "NOT SUSTAINABLE"

    what's "not sustainable" mean to you?

    not in some TEXT BOOK?

    but on the front pages of any newspaper?

    you're so sophisticated, you're silly

    The Canadian Press: Overhauling health-care system tops agenda at annual meeting of Canada's doctors

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    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    too abstruse, too theoretical

    politics is FEET on the GROUND

    president of cma ADMITS, CONCEDES---the system is "IMPLODING"

    the numbers are "NOT SUSTAINABLE"

    what's "not sustainable" mean to you?

    not in some TEXT BOOK?

    but on the front pages of any newspaper?

    you're so sophisticated, you're silly

    The Canadian Press: Overhauling health-care system tops agenda at annual meeting of Canada's doctors
    Please stop posting in this manner, it is very hard to understand.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Please stop posting in this manner, it is very hard to understand.
    Agreed. It'd be easier to debate with you if you structured your posts in a dfferent manner.
    "I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
    Alex Salmond, First Minister of Scotland, Scottish National Party

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    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    too abstruse, too theoretical

    politics is FEET on the GROUND

    president of cma ADMITS, CONCEDES---the system is "IMPLODING"

    the numbers are "NOT SUSTAINABLE"

    what's "not sustainable" mean to you?

    not in some TEXT BOOK?

    but on the front pages of any newspaper?

    you're so sophisticated, you're silly

    The Canadian Press: Overhauling health-care system tops agenda at annual meeting of Canada's doctors
    Yeah, that's the opinion of one doctor, speaking with the sort of hyperbolic language those in the service of the public shoud know better than to use. It says nothing about financial issues, nor does it claim nationalised healthcare is causing the current problems in the Canadian system. I'm afraid I don't see what you're getting at here.
    "I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
    Alex Salmond, First Minister of Scotland, Scottish National Party

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    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by Anima View Post
    Yeah, that's the opinion of one doctor, speaking with the sort of hyperbolic language those in the service of the public shoud know better than to use. It says nothing about financial issues, nor does it claim nationalised healthcare is causing the current problems in the Canadian system. I'm afraid I don't see what you're getting at here.
    i'm not getting at anything, dr doig is

    that's hardly "the opinion of one doctor"

    whether she should know better or not---LOL!

    i'm afraid she's saying a great deal about "financial issues"

    i have NO INTEREST in debate

    that is, by all means, think what you will

    did you see the part about the SECRET MEMO by the VCHA calling for the ELIMINATION of 6000 surgeries, 24% of the metro's case load, the CLOSING of a QUARTER of its facilities?

    Thousands of surgeries may be cut in Metro Vancouver due to government underfunding, leaked paper

    that SOUNDS bad, no?

    READ!

    clear enough?

    thanks, friend

    cliff

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    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by Anima View Post
    We live longer than you do, on average.
    I read a study in the Sun Times, one of the local Chicago papers, about how if accidents and homicides are removed (things that people die from that have little to do with health care system) from the statistics, Americans are actually ranked first in life span. Switzerland then comes in second.

    I might have the numbers a bit off, but it was something like Americans are 4 times more liely to die in a car accident and 12 times more likely to die by homicide then Japan, for instance.

    I would also suggest that if all the countries counted a live birth as Americans do - we would improve our life expectancy even higher.

    http://www.drwalt.com/blog/2009/07/0...eloped-world”/
    Last edited by buck; 08-28-09 at 11:35 PM.

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