Page 7 of 14 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 138

Thread: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

  1. #61
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    10-04-10 @ 04:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    5,289

    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    ooooooooooooooooooh

  2. #62
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Rubbish. When you are talking about the modern western world with a few years difference between nations life expectancy shows little. Bolshie Zeebub's stats showed a years difference, you can tell next to nothing about healthcare quality from this.
    Of course you can. As I said it aint perfect, but it shows plenty about the quality and scope of healthcare in said country. Healthcare is many things that all effect life expectancy. It is how well the system cares for people when they do get sick, but it is also very much how well the system is in preventive medicine. One thing that effects life expectancy a bit is the eating habits (and drinking) of said country, but it is for the most part not a key factor when we are talking about the west. The only place I would point it out is Russia, where drinking is a very serious problem in the adult population and has cut the life expectancy dramatically. But then on the flip side, it shows also a lacking of preventive care and when they do get sick, a lack of quality care does it not?

    Nope, we have already been through this. Go back in the thread a few pages.
    Oh I have, and I disagree fully.

    Your article has no links to prove anything he states in the article. He makes a lot of claims about other countries without providing any evidence of said claims. As long as the differences in reporting is not hugely different then I see no reason not to use the infant mortality rates as a method of comparison.
    PeteEU

  3. #63
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Of course you can. As I said it aint perfect, but it shows plenty about the quality and scope of healthcare in said country. Healthcare is many things that all effect life expectancy. It is how well the system cares for people when they do get sick, but it is also very much how well the system is in preventive medicine. One thing that effects life expectancy a bit is the eating habits (and drinking) of said country, but it is for the most part not a key factor when we are talking about the west. The only place I would point it out is Russia, where drinking is a very serious problem in the adult population and has cut the life expectancy dramatically. But then on the flip side, it shows also a lacking of preventive care and when they do get sick, a lack of quality care does it not?
    So what you are saying is that the one year difference between Britain and America could have nothing to do with lifestyle choices? It must because of the healthcare quality? That is absolute rubbish and you know it. I see absolutely no proof to show that year's difference somehow means America has worse healthcare, care to back it up.

    Oh I have, and I disagree fully.

    Your article has no links to prove anything he states in the article. He makes a lot of claims about other countries without providing any evidence of said claims.
    It is common knowledge.

    International infant mortality rates: bias from reporting differences. -- Howell and Blondel 84 (5): 850 -- American Journal of Public Health

    As long as the differences in reporting is not hugely different then I see no reason not to use the infant mortality rates as a method of comparison.
    Good to know you are willing to use skewed data but organisations that actually compile these stats disagree such as the OEEC as previously quoted.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #64
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    01-30-10 @ 07:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    1,618

    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    So what you are saying is that the one year difference between Britain and America could have nothing to do with lifestyle choices? It must because of the healthcare quality? That is absolute rubbish and you know it. I see absolutely no proof to show that year's difference somehow means America has worse healthcare, care to back it up.

    It is common knowledge.

    International infant mortality rates: bias from reporting differences. -- Howell and Blondel 84 (5): 850 -- American Journal of Public Health


    Good to know you are willing to use skewed data but organisations that actually compile these stats disagree such as the OEEC as previously quoted.
    Thank you.

    I'm willing to give you that differences in reporting methods may explain such a low US score for infant mortality to some extent, but not to make it as low as it is.

    In any case the OP subject is a fabrication. Mothers are not giving birth in hospital corridors in the UK. They are in fact receiving excellent care. This is evidenced by the simple fact that UK residents are not actually up in arms about this story. Remember, bad news sells.

    As for centralisation and bureaucracy. The NHS is divided into numerous different Health trusts each with their own budget to manage.
    Last edited by creation; 08-27-09 at 06:19 AM.

  5. #65
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    I'm willing to give you that differences in reporting methods may explain such a low US score for infant mortality to some extent, but not to make it as low as it is.
    How low is it relatively speaking?

    As for centralisation and bureaucracy. The NHS is divided into numerous different Health trusts each with their own budget to manage.
    So? So is local gov't but it is still an extremely centralised system due to the central gov't intervention on how the money is used and other factors.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  6. #66
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    So what you are saying is that the one year difference between Britain and America could have nothing to do with lifestyle choices? It must because of the healthcare quality? That is absolute rubbish and you know it. I see absolutely no proof to show that year's difference somehow means America has worse healthcare, care to back it up.
    No I am not saying that. I am saying that regardless of lifestyle choice, it is the job of the healthcare system to keep these people alive but more importantly to prevent the issues with whatever lifestyle choice people make.

    On top of that lifestyle choices between countries in the industrialized western world is not that different. They all have "Americanised food" choices that are very popular and obesity rates are rising in all. But lets test your theory. Germany, is by far the fattest country in Europe. Its obesity rates are the closest to the US possible and I have even heard right wingers claim it was worse.. and yet German's live on average a year longer than Americans...why is that? Have you ever seen a traditional German diet? So what will your excuse be now? That American's have more accidental deaths?

    I have never claimed that life expectancy numbers are some sort of grading card on the quality of a countries healthcare system, but what it is, is part of the overall picture. What I, and others, have noted that despite spending almost double as much on healthcare, the US system has not give a life expectancy to match. Now you can come with claims of bias in the numbers or what not, blame the blacks or other minorities like some right wingers, or just ignore the numbers, but you have to question why a country spending so much on healthcare does give better results on so so so many statistics.. and no it is not solely because of life style choices..

    And yet when UNICEF uses statistical analysis to make up for the supposed differences, the results are similar..

    Good to know you are willing to use skewed data but organisations that actually compile these stats disagree such as the OEEC as previously quoted.
    I am not willing to use anything. All I am stating is that it is the best number we have and that we have to use said number as part of the over all picture. I somehow doubt that the huge difference between say Norway or Spain vs the US is all down to "how the definition of a live birth" is.
    PeteEU

  7. #67
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last Seen
    09-19-09 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    374

    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Did I read the article that I myself posted?

    Believe it or not I did!

    What's your point?
    I choose not to believe you did.

  8. #68
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    01-30-10 @ 07:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    1,618

    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    How low is it relatively speaking?
    Im sure you can answer that question.

    So? So is local gov't but it is still an extremely centralised system due to the central gov't intervention on how the money is used and other factors.
    Indeed, local gov too. If you think its too centralised then please tell us, what would you like Health boards to do for themselves?

    Im sure the British government would love to get rid of the responsibility and this the blame.

  9. #69
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ventura California
    Last Seen
    11-15-11 @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,706

    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Personally I support healthcare being available for all. I'm not a fan of bureaucratic and centralised nation of the NHS however.
    I think we all are of the same opinion; the main difference between Conservatives and many of the Liberals who think MORE money and Government is the end all to our societal ills is that we think there is a better solution that does not involve Government bureaucrats messing things up even more.

    Modern Liberal thinking makes things much easier to grasp; all societies problems are due to Conservatives, and we can solve all problems with highly placed modern Liberal Government officials and confiscatory tax rates.

  10. #70
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ventura California
    Last Seen
    11-15-11 @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,706

    Re: UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Don't we here in the USA have a law that states a person can drop off a baby at fire stations or police stations no questions asked.....I wonder how many can get dropped off per year?
    We do? Where would that be? And even if that is the case in some instances, is it really the result of a shortage of hospital beds or healthcare, or more a lifestyle issue?
    Last edited by Truth Detector; 08-27-09 at 05:15 PM.

Page 7 of 14 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •