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Thread: Fla. students' shirts: 'Islam is of the Devil'

  1. #131
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    Re: Fla. students' shirts: 'Islam is of the Devil'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    [My Usual pro-establishment comeback.] In England we have an established and it has a place, legally in state schools. A place I acknowledge and firmly support. If this is being neglected it is a sad thing and I advise all Englishmen who hear about such to complain and support their established church and its long held place in society.[/My Usual pro-establishment comeback.]

    ...Thought I might as well get it out of the way.


    Indeed, now you can get onto the other stuff now we have that cleared up


  2. #132
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    Re: Fla. students' shirts: 'Islam is of the Devil'

    I grew up in a very fundamentalist Protestant church. My original pastor would probably consider me a "liberal" (you have to pronounce it with a spitting sound, lol) these days, isn't that a hoot?

    One reason being, that if someone tells me they know Jesus as their personal savior, I'm inclined to take them at their word unless they give me some reason to think otherwise...even if they're Catholic.

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    Re: Fla. students' shirts: 'Islam is of the Devil'

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeFromWI View Post
    Sending them home is an outrage!

    And please remember it is an outrage to release a report started during the Bush administration that stated the possibility of right wing terrorist acts are more and more likely in present days. Too bad we couldn't continue that debate once some Jew hater blasted away people some 4 days after the report was released. And a couple weeks after that a man who wanted to kill Obama walked into a gym and blasted away people.

    Im serious and on topic. We MUST stop this way of "hate thinking" if we are to get ANYWHERE as a people. Folks actually believe there is a devil. And on top of it, they actually believe Islam is the work of the little goatee'd red guy.
    Great post!!!
    "I like to tell people when the final history is written on Iraq, it will look like just a comma because there is -- my point is, there's a strong will for democracy." --George W. Bush, interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, Sept. 24, 2006

  4. #134
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    Re: Fla. students' shirts: 'Islam is of the Devil'

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I grew up in a very fundamentalist Protestant church. My original pastor would probably consider me a "liberal" (you have to pronounce it with a spitting sound, lol) these days, isn't that a hoot?

    One reason being, that if someone tells me they know Jesus as their personal savior, I'm inclined to take them at their word unless they give me some reason to think otherwise...even if they're Catholic.
    To me Jesus is the link between man and God, he is the supreme, personal being(as opposed to God who is not personal but absolute, unmanifested totality- all possibility.). This is why we need to grow towards a personal relationship with him as this bridge. I just believe that most of the other major religious traditions teach similar things in different ways, the philosophia perennis, and that God would not abandon them. Some might consider this a liberal thing I suppose although I consider myself a follower of the Perennialist or Traditionalist school, as well as a devout Anglican as Lord Northboure was, and they are very much traditionalists, some might say raging reactionaries.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  5. #135
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    Re: Fla. students' shirts: 'Islam is of the Devil'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Note: I'm guessing I'm talking to a Christian here, if you're an agnostic or atheist I'm not really interested in debating the existence of God or anything like that.


    I disagree, as Tawney said the issue of works is a big divide, they play far more a part than you allow. You are putting a very protestant, personal-faith spin on it. For us Catholics, whether we be Romans or Anglicans, and those of the Orthodox faith, there is a definite place for works as part of salvation and the church as a mediator between God and man.
    Well I was raised Catholic so I know my Catholic doctrine, I changed to Episcopalian as an adult (Anglican), and am borderline agnostic today. If I had to choose, my favorite kind of service to attend is probably a good old traditional Southern Baptist one. So I have been exposed to all sides of it, and basically the differences as to salvation are pretty nuanced after you get passed differences in tradition and style of worship.

    Catholic Answers addresses the subject of Faith and Works, and it pretty much just restates what I wrote earlier.

    Arenít We Saved by Faith Alone? (This Rock: March 2003)
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 08-28-09 at 10:20 PM.
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  6. #136
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    Re: Fla. students' shirts: 'Islam is of the Devil'

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Well I was raised Catholic so I know my Catholic doctrine, I changed to Episcopalian as an adult (Anglican), and am borderline agnostic today. If I had to choose, my favorite kind of service to attend is probably a good old traditional Southern Baptist one. So I have been exposed to all sides of it, and basically the differences as to salvation are pretty nuanced after you get passed differences in tradition and style of worship.

    Catholic Answers addresses the subject of Faith and Works, and it pretty much just restates what I wrote earlier.

    Arenít We Saved by Faith Alone? (This Rock: March 2003)
    Obviously I'm not saying you can just use works for salvation. I agree with you there. Grace is certainly the key but not all. I suppose what I meant was that Catholics and Orthodox Christians, such as myself, hold works and sacrements to be extremely important alongside the obvious necessity of grace. Works though on their own are meaningless, it is why we do them which matters and for them to mean something they must come through a profound love for man and God. Absent a least a modicum of good works then it is hard to understand how the individual can be saved, as in how can a person who accepts salvation not perform goods works. As that link shows, and the quote of Tawney's as well, there is a real difference here between Catholics and Protestants. It is part of the larger differences between the very individualistic faith of the Protestant and the traditional community, tradition and authority based faith of the Catholic and Orthodox. I'm an Anglican which is sort of like an episcopalian except I'm quite high church and celebrate the Catholic nature of our church as well as defend its established place in English society and gov't.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 08-28-09 at 10:51 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #137
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    Re: Fla. students' shirts: 'Islam is of the Devil'

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Actually, in general its Christian doctrine that if you are not Christian yet have also not been informed that Christ died for your sins, then you will still go to heaven - basically that God does not judge you simply on your ignorance. However, if you are not Christian yet have been told that Christ died for your sins, and thus have rejected Christ as your personal redeemer than you will go to Hell.
    I Better start packing, hmm what to wear what to wear, need to make sure to take a bottle of SPF 1000 x Pi
    Last edited by OxymoronP; 08-29-09 at 12:02 AM.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

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    Re: Fla. students' shirts: 'Islam is of the Devil'

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    I Better start packing, hmm what to wear what to wear, need to make sure to take a bottle of SP 1000 x Pi
    Lol
    I'll join you.

    Remember to pack some suncream. Where we are going i heard is hot all year round


  9. #139
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    Re: Fla. students' shirts: 'Islam is of the Devil'

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Lol
    I'll join you.

    Remember to pack some suncream. Where we are going i heard is hot all year round
    take a bottle of SPF 1000 x Pi Way ahead of you, .


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

  10. #140
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    Re: Fla. students' shirts: 'Islam is of the Devil'

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    take a bottle of SPF 1000 x Pi Way ahead of you, .
    Damn lol

    I need nothing except some haircream.
    Can't have it drying out you know


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