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Ted Kennedy Dies of Brain Cancer at Age 77

They are just following the lead of the previous President and VP. As we all know they couldn't wait to dance on the graves of 9-11 victims and use their deaths as politcal tools to forward their self-serving lies. Use them as pawns to drag us away from the true War on terror into Bush's war in Iraq.
 
Has there ever been a military man that has committed manslaughter before?

If so should we dance on their grave then?

If that were my reasons for dancing, I'd have to give this further consideration, but it isn't.

Cause the Mary Jo thing seems to be the prime reason why people are saying its entirely fine to dance on his grave as if he's a horrible person (Or at least, their way to justify it as being for a reason other than he's a big mean ole liberal)

Forgive me for saying this, but I've been quite clear about my reasons, and I believe that you are willfully obtuse. If you have any questions about my reasons for not mourning, feel free to read up the thread.

;)
 
From my own experience I can even look to sports and my football teams 2007 season. Everything that happened after the murder of Sean Taylor was somehow connected with him. The 4 game win streak was dedicated to him, towels with his number were given out, he was on the lips of every fan, was talked about in every interview, was part of every pregame speech. Players even at time credited his spirit with helping their plays. The entire end of that season was pretty much cemented in the memory and in honor of Sean Taylor. They were going to win those games FOR SEAN. They were going to get to the playoffs FOR SEAN. Some could've, and likely outside of the fanbase did, call it classless or tasteless that they were "using" Taylor in that way to try and ramp up emotions, increase the crowds, and propel themselves into the playoffs...but to the fanbase and to those close to it there's not a doubt in my mind it had far, far, far more to do with honoring the memory of their fallen safety.
I think it was a different scenario with ST though, as he was a team player, and everyone involved was on the same page, and the sum good would be enjoyed by the fans and team, so I think that was more of an "in honor of". Personal story here, my grandparents were thouroughbred owners and loved the ponies, I want to eventually race a horse in their names, and many of the current owners and track personnel still remember my grandparents, so it is something that would be something they loved, and the family and close friends would be the only people affected in most terms, well.....except for the bettors, the only way I would feel bad about that decision would be if the horse went lame or otherwise was a bad performer since my grandparents deserve a winner as a namesake, with the political thing though, I think it does a disservice as there could be real consequences to the whole of society, and agendas should never be furthered by tradgedy, it's no different in my mind than the "never let a good crisis go to waste" statement by Emmanuel.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Once again...

Cut the personal attacks and insulting name calling.

Cut the attempts to derail this onto entirely over points of conversation. I'd advise people to avoid taking the "9/11 Bush Cheney" bait, as that discussion at this point would be very one sided
 
A US Senator for nine terms, Ted Kennedy most certainly served the people.

Ted Kennedy was the drunken half-rate progeny of a wealthy man who used his power to buy him a place at Harvard, buy him a safe harbor during Korea, and buy him a seat in congress. You may think of him as some kind of American royalty, but he did NOTHING to earn those 9 terms except bear the proper surname to be elected in Massachusetts.

He's deserving of about as much respect as Billy Mays the Sham Wow Guy.

p.s. There you go, Zyphlin. I've briefly outlined my reasons for my ambivalence over Kennedy's death. As you'll note, there's nothing there about Mary Jo, although I will say that the only reason he did not serve time in prison is the same as the reason he was elected: his family's wealth and power.
 
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If that were my reasons for dancing, I'd have to give this further consideration, but it isn't.

Forgive me for saying this, but I've been quite clear about my reasons, and I believe that you are willfully obtuse. If you have any questions about my reasons for not mourning, feel free to read up the thread.

;)

Wasn't speaking of you specifically but a majority of people that seem to be focusing primarily on that in this thread.

I think it was a different scenario with ST though, as he was a team player, and everyone involved was on the same page, and the sum good would be enjoyed by the fans and team, so I think that was more of an "in honor of". Personal story here, my grandparents were thouroughbred owners and loved the ponies, I want to eventually race a horse in their names, and many of the current owners and track personnel still remember my grandparents, so it is something that would be something they loved, and the family and close friends would be the only people affected in most terms, well.....except for the bettors, the only way I would feel bad about that decision would be if the horse went lame or otherwise was a bad performer since my grandparents deserve a winner as a namesake, with the political thing though, I think it does a disservice as there could be real consequences to the whole of society, and agendas should never be furthered by tradgedy, it's no different in my mind than the "never let a good crisis go to waste" statement by Emmanuel.

Well no, not everyone was on the same team.

His TEAMMATES were on his team. But The giants, and the cowboys, and the other teams the Skin's played during that time weren't part of the same team there. Same for their fans.

Much like with the Kennedy thing. Sure, CONSERVATIVES don't agree with him on Universal Health Care, but the majority of his "team" (the democrats) and his fans (democratic voters) very much DO agree with his notion of UHC.

You're saying there will be real consequences, and knowing you as a poster I believe you really mean that in a generic "things could go either way" type of sense...but for most on "his team", they don't think there will be major consequence,s but major benefits to enacting this.

Again, I see your point, I just don't really agree that whenever its done in politics, regardless of the context, that its tasteless.
 
Ted Kennedy served HIMSELF. Please stop pretending otherwise.


Wrong again.

He was a prestigous statemen.

His opponents in the Senate would never allow such trashy words to leave their mouths.

The only persons with an ego-driven emotional agenda is, sadly, you and a few other hyper partisan posters.
 
Wrong again.

He was a prestigous statemen.

His opponents in the Senate would never allow such trashy words to leave their mouths.

The only persons with an ego-driven emotional agenda is, sadly, you and a few other hyper partisan posters.


Yes, it's such a service that being in the Senate for 50+ years does all of us. I mean, it's not like "serving" in the senate doesn't entitle one to all kinds of personal perks like good pay, extensive benefits, a lucrative retirement package, free office space, and incredibly clout/status/ass-kissing. I mean, Teddy had his own professional staff of ass-kissers.

That's practically identical to humping a 50 pound backpack through a desert in 110F temperatures wearing body armor, and being shot at by the locals.

This is starting to sound like a whiny hollywood actress crying and moaning about the difficulties of fame.

:shock:
 
Ted Kennedy was the drunken half-rate progeny of a wealthy man who used his power to buy him a place at Harvard, buy him a safe harbor during Korea, and buy him a seat in congress. You may think of him as some kind of American royalty, but he did NOTHING to earn those 9 terms except bear the proper surname to be elected in Massachusetts.

He's deserving of about as much respect as Billy Mays the Sham Wow Guy.

p.s. There you go, Zyphlin. I've briefly outlined my reasons for my ambivalence over Kennedy's death. As you'll note, there's nothing there about Mary Jo, although I will say that the only reason he did not serve time in prison is the same as the reason he was elected: his family's wealth and power.


Trust me, I agree with you on the whole American Royalty thing. Here's my thing though....I kind of agree with you on the Billy Mays and Sham Wow Guy thing. Well, not entirely, I know you can't stand the man but I think its just blind hatred of the things around him to say that he did NOTHING that entire time that was worthy of some kind of respect. Even someone as dispicable as Jerry Farwell has done at least something in life with his station to was positive for some people. And I do just have respect for the OFFICE people hold at times, which is why the "Dear Leader" crap bugs me as much as the "Shrub" stuff did.

Sorry rambling.

But...yes, even with Billy May's death if someone came into a thread where people are simply paying respects and started in on how "He's an obnoxious ass who needs to get off my TV. I'm glad the guys dead, screw him, I don't have to hear him anymore" I'd be thinking that's incredibly classless as well.

Just, in general, I think its a classless, disrespectful thing to do...not just to the dead, but to those doing their own version of mourning...to just immedietely launch into hate filled diatribes in the midle of it all, regardless of who it is.

And yes, the caveat there for my view of it being classless or disrespectful does rely a bit on context around it. If someone started up a second kennedy thread slagging why he should get no respect I'd find it a little distasteful but not have much care nor say its very disrespectful...they're going and voicing their opinion and not disrespecting those around them by ****ting on their mourning (I know its hard for some people to grasp, but sometimes even when you've never met someone, people recognize another human died whose family will grieve over it and they wish to be respectful. Hell, even bhkad recognizes this). As such, when someone undoubtably gets us to the "Godwin's law" stage and say "Well would you say that if people were saying that about Hitler dieing?!" I'd say yes....if there was some thread with person after person paying their condolensces...I'm going to guess that wouldn't happen. (We're not storm front ;) )

Wow that got more long winded than i expected
 
but he did NOTHING to earn those 9 terms except bear the proper surname to be elected in Massachusetts.

He's deserving of about as much respect as Billy Mays the Sham Wow Guy.

.


It is not "we" and it is not a matter of "think."

You may not think he "earned" those terms, but apparently his Republican rivals along with his Democratic teammates have compelled themselves to send their heartfelt condolences.

You, along with a couple other crazies, are posters on the fringe.

No respectable person feels like you do.

Not one Senator, not one Congressman.

You belong on the shelf next to those jokers who think Bush and the US government were somehow responsible for 9/11.
 
Just, in general, I think its a classless, disrespectful thing to do...not just to the dead, but to those doing their own version of mourning...to just immedietely launch into hate filled diatribes in the midle of it all, regardless of who it is.

You know what? It's a matter of degree. If Teddy's daughter were on here, the last thing I'd do was slag her daddy. But, the cult of celebrity in the U.S. where people are mourning freaking Billy Mays who sold rags on television is just...bizarre. And, it's the cult of celebrity that I'm resisting.

A very well-liked governor, Lawton Chiles, passed away in Florida a few years ago. There were a lot of outpourings of sentiment in regards to it, and I could understand that. He lived and worked here, he raised a family here, and people were very attached to him.

But, I have zero attachment to Billy Mays, Michael Jackson, Farrah Fawcett, or Teddy Kennedy, and neither does anyone else here.

I think it's bizarre that we're "mourning" this man. Mourning is reserved for people who actually MATTER. Our cult of celebrity gives us the idea that people we've seen on television somehow have a connection to us, but they don't know us, and didn't care about us, and wouldn't have known us on the street.

I'm going to spend more time mourning an average rifleman who dies on the sands of Iraq or the mountains of Afghanistan, or frankly, an Iranian voter who is gunned down in the streets of Islamabad more than I do Teddy Kennedy. Because those people, in the scheme of things, GAVE MORE, and MATTER MORE.

Call me classless, i'll deal.
 
Trust me, I agree with you on the whole American Royalty thing. Here's my thing though....I kind of agree with you on the Billy Mays and Sham Wow Guy thing. Well, not entirely, I know you can't stand the man but I think its just blind hatred of the things around him to say that he did NOTHING that entire time that was worthy of some kind of respect. Even someone as dispicable as Jerry Farwell has done at least something in life with his station to was positive for some people. And I do just have respect for the OFFICE people hold at times, which is why the "Dear Leader" crap bugs me as much as the "Shrub" stuff did.

Sorry rambling.

But...yes, even with Billy May's death if someone came into a thread where people are simply paying respects and started in on how "He's an obnoxious ass who needs to get off my TV. I'm glad the guys dead, screw him, I don't have to hear him anymore" I'd be thinking that's incredibly classless as well.

Just, in general, I think its a classless, disrespectful thing to do...not just to the dead, but to those doing their own version of mourning...to just immedietely launch into hate filled diatribes in the midle of it all, regardless of who it is.

And yes, the caveat there for my view of it being classless or disrespectful does rely a bit on context around it. If someone started up a second kennedy thread slagging why he should get no respect I'd find it a little distasteful but not have much care nor say its very disrespectful...they're going and voicing their opinion and not disrespecting those around them by ****ting on their mourning (I know its hard for some people to grasp, but sometimes even when you've never met someone, people recognize another human died whose family will grieve over it and they wish to be respectful. Hell, even bhkad recognizes this). As such, when someone undoubtably gets us to the "Godwin's law" stage and say "Well would you say that if people were saying that about Hitler dieing?!" I'd say yes....if there was some thread with person after person paying their condolensces...I'm going to guess that wouldn't happen. (We're not storm front ;) )

Wow that got more long winded than i expected

I actually thought someone would bring up Hitler dying awhile ago.

And are you referring to me? I think I began posting around the middle of the thread responding to someone who was "happy about the scumbag dying" (something to that sort). I can't sit here while someone is doing something so "classless" as The_Limt would have it.
 
Until I see evidence of a Senator or Congressman dancing on his grave I will not cede the point.
 
Until I see evidence of a Senator or Congressman dancing on his grave I will not cede the point.
Negative proof is not proof. Fail.
 
You know what? It's a matter of degree. If Teddy's daughter were on here, the last thing I'd do was slag her daddy. But, the cult of celebrity in the U.S. where people are mourning freaking Billy Mays who sold rags on television is just...bizarre. And, it's the cult of celebrity that I'm resisting.

A very well-liked governor, Lawton Chiles, passed away in Florida a few years ago. There were a lot of outpourings of sentiment in regards to it, and I could understand that. He lived and worked here, he raised a family here, and people were very attached to him.

But, I have zero attachment to Billy Mays, Michael Jackson, Farrah Fawcett, or Teddy Kennedy, and neither does anyone else here.

I think it's bizarre that we're "mourning" this man. Mourning is reserved for people who actually MATTER. Our cult of celebrity gives us the idea that people we've seen on television somehow have a connection to us, but they don't know us, and didn't care about us, and wouldn't have known us on the street.

I'm going to spend more time mourning an average rifleman who dies on the sands of Iraq or the mountains of Afghanistan, or frankly, an Iranian voter who is gunned down in the streets of Islamabad more than I do Teddy Kennedy. Because those people, in the scheme of things, GAVE MORE, and MATTER MORE.

Call me classless, i'll deal.

I actually had a long discussion about that very notion back in 2007 after Taylor's death, but honestly can't remember if it was here or on the Redskins message board. Its an interesting subject but I think its verging a good bit off topic from here so I'll leave it for another time.
 
A very well-liked governor, Lawton Chiles, passed away in Florida a few years ago. There were a lot of outpourings of sentiment in regards to it, and I could understand that. He lived and worked here, he raised a family here, and people were very attached to him.

But, I have zero attachment to Billy Mays, Michael Jackson, Farrah Fawcett, or Teddy Kennedy, and neither does anyone else here.

First off, do not put Teddy Kennedy in the same group as MJ.

Secondly, Ted Kennedy was MY Senator! I am from Mass. He represented ME. I think I have an attachment to Senator Kennedy.


Iranian voter who is gunned down in the streets of Islamabad

Just to let you know, Islamabad is in Pakistan, not Iran.
 
Are you under the impression that anyone cares?


It is no real concern of mine whether anyone "cares" or not.

It is not about "me."

You have an emotional agenda to pimp, I do not.

Simply put, it is classless to dance on someones grave.

Period.
 
First off, do not put Teddy Kennedy in the same group as MJ.

Secondly, Ted Kennedy was MY Senator! I am from Mass. He represented ME. I think I have an attachment to Senator Kennedy.

Great. Sorry for your loss. :( But, you should have bet on him in the death pool.

Just to let you know, Islamabad is in Pakistan, not Iran.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI"]YouTube - Animal House: Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor[/ame]
 
Well no, not everyone was on the same team.
Fair enough, and I guess the difference is hard to explain in words, but I don't think anyone who is reasonable could begrudge an "in memorandum" season for a fallen teammate, not under those particular circumstances anyway. The difference I see is that people want to push an unpopular agenda and are using a man's death to do it, to Kennedy's credit, he was absolutely a pitbull on the issue, even though it wasn't exactly something he did particularly well, and he stuck to his guns, that's respectable, but I don't see pushing healthcare in his name as the same thing, with a fallen player.

His TEAMMATES were on his team. But The giants, and the cowboys, and the other teams the Skin's played during that time weren't part of the same team there. Same for their fans.
True, but I don't see opposing teams thinking of it as distasteful, as I would think they would do the exact same thing had the shoe fallen their way, the Kennedy situation as I see it, and Heston, and Wellstone, are a lunatic fringe that wants their agenda passed by any means necessary, human dignity, class, protocol, and basic decency be damned.

Much like with the Kennedy thing. Sure, CONSERVATIVES don't agree with him on Universal Health Care, but the majority of his "team" (the democrats) and his fans (democratic voters) very much DO agree with his notion of UHC.
While this is true, there are real consequences to letting this be the standard bearer of how to remember the dead, I think we could all agree that sometimes precedence should be forewarned. Anyway, this is my opinion, and I would suspect that of many here to some degree.

You're saying there will be real consequences, and knowing you as a poster I believe you really mean that in a generic "things could go either way" type of sense...but for most on "his team", they don't think there will be major consequence,s but major benefits to enacting this.
Yeah, you pretty much got it right, and I can't stress the last part of this point enough, they don't think there will be consequences, but in reality everything has unintended consequences, and this one could be a doozie, the thing I really have a problem with is pushing an agenda through without any forethought.

Again, I see your point, I just don't really agree that whenever its done in politics, regardless of the context, that its tasteless.
And that's fine, opinions are just that, I just hope it ends with opinions and nothing worse.
 
Lol! By stating the whole Iran/Islamabad thing I sincerely just wanted to let you know. I like to spread knowledge :]
 
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