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CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

MrVicchio said:
8 years, no attacks.

Let's see how Obama's actions work out.
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Lol, blinded by partisan.
Bush presidency of 8 years was from 2001 to 2009 what happened in Sept. 2001?
You might get away with 7 years
Oh why bother, thanks for the laugh though :lol:
 
Agent Ferris said:
If the gloves were off his fingernails would have been ripped out one by one, his eyes would have been burned with hot needles, his toes would have been broken with a hammer, etc etc. Saying "we're going to hurt your children if you don't tell us what we want to know" with absolutely no intention of backing up the threat is not even close to "the gloves coming off". :roll:
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It's this exact form of red blood hot headed can't show any weakness knee jerk macho reactionism that has allowed the various injustices and deaths for a meaningless war to have progressed.
It's sad that after 8 years there are still those who've learnt nothing but apologetics.
 
formerroadie said:
I am just hoping they don't limit it too much. It's a mighty large loophole for people to slip through. I know they will do the best they can, but I'm not sure the net is being thrown wide enough.
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That loophole as it relates to the agents is sort of a necessity:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law]Ex post facto law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Agent Ferris said:
I won't be losing any sleep over KSM not being given cake and ice cream. In fact I wish he had been subject to actual torture rather then just being talked meanly to. Poor baby. :roll:
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What does torture achieve other than getting your kicks off?
 
If these animals were U.S. citizens or even members of another countries military than I would agree that threating there familes is wrong. But as these are the same people who saw peoples heads off and tape it for the shock value I really dont care what they tell them. Now if they had done anything to the kids that would be completly different.
 
jfuh said:
What does torture achieve other than getting your kicks off?
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Exactly and someone underv torture is capable of saying anything in order for the torture to stop.

But besides the technicalities of it, when someone uses such methods involving threats to harm children or to rape someone's mum, then anything become permissable and thus justifies the acts of the terrorists themselves.

Using violence against the person himself is one thing but getting innocent children and mothers involved is another, even if its merely a threat.
 
MrVicchio said:
8 years, no attacks.

Let's see how Obama's actions work out.
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I guess those anthrax attacks never happened then and our soldiers haven't been attacked either. What's your qualifier?
 
jfuh said:
What does torture achieve other than getting your kicks off?
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The detention of terrorists has prevented them from engaging in further terrorist activity, and their interrogation has provided intelligence that has enabled the identification and apprehension of other terrorists, warned of terrorist plots planned for the United States and around the world, and supported articles frequently used in the finished intelligence publications for senior policymakers and war fighters. In this regard, there is no doubt that the Program has been effective. ...
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Quote from Inspector Generals report.

Any more questions??
 
jfuh said:
What does torture achieve other than getting your kicks off?
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If Bush/Cheney could have shown that torture produced good results, they would have "Leaked" that info years ago when they had the power to do so.
Does anyone really dispute that?
 
MrVicchio said:
8 years, no attacks.

Let's see how Obama's actions work out.
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I'm sure you're estatic with Bill Clinton's work against terror as well. He went 8 years of his policy without an attack within our borders as well.
 
Redress said:
You forget that correlation does not equal causation.
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What?

Wait, 1990-2000 Terrorist are treated as a law enforcement issue... the attacks get worse culmination 9/11/01.

Bush sets a new tone, much harder, attacks stop...

Obama is going back to the more Law Enforcement approach.

Should there be one or more terrorist attacks on US Soil...would that be enough to make you doubt the law enforcement approach? Or would you stand by your above logic?
 
Zyphlin said:
I'm sure you're estatic with Bill Clinton's work against terror as well. He went 8 years of his policy without an attack within our borders as well.
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Sigh.

I guess you forget, or don't care, that the soil of a US Embassy, is US Soil.

But you're a calm moderate fellow who is beyond such "extreme" and out dated thinking like that right?
 
MrVicchio said:
What?

Wait, 1990-2000 Terrorist are treated as a law enforcement issue... the attacks get worse culmination 9/11/01.

Bush sets a new tone, much harder, attacks stop...

Obama is going back to the more Law Enforcement approach.

Should there be one or more terrorist attacks on US Soil...would that be enough to make you doubt the law enforcement approach? Or would you stand by your above logic?
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How about giving Bush the credit he deserves for this planet not be hit by a giant asteroid during his regime? (wasn't that due to his use of torture & spying on us all too?)
 
First, I think that going forward with this investigation sets a horrible precedent for the country and is the wrong thing to do.

Second, with that said, if the investigation finds wrong doing then the people that did it need to be called to task.

Third, with THAT said, you're not going to find me having any sympathy or saying its some big horrible morally corrupt thing. If he actually carried out said threat you'd have my support, but not just stating it.

Fourth, someone idiotically asked what seperates us from Mobsters and terrorists, which is ludicrous. I know this may be hard to believe, but the reason terrorist and mobsters are bad isn't just beacuse they threaten children. Get back to me when our interrogators are:

Mass murdering civilians
Sending out tapes of people being decapitated
Running extortion and protection rings
Carrying out mass murder plots
Actually carrying out said threat by killing the family member
etc etc

So no, a few interrogators going overboard and making an IDLE threat does not make us "The same" as mobster sand terrorists.
 
Devil505 said:
How about giving Bush the credit he deserves for this planet not be hit by a giant asteroid during his regime? (wasn't that due to his use of torture & spying on us all too?)
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How old are you Devil?

Just curious.
 
Zyphlin said:
Get back to me when our interrogators are:

Mass murdering civilians
Sending out tapes of people being decapitated
Running extortion and protection rings
Carrying out mass murder plots
Actually carrying out said threat by killing the family member
etc etc

So no, a few interrogators going overboard and making an IDLE threat does not make us "The same" as mobster sand terrorists.
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Pretty low bar you set for our morality.
The difference that I see is that individuals will occasionally go to far & do immoral things...That's just human nature.



BUT


This country has never before countenanced state sponsored torture as a legitimate interrogation tool. That is inexcusable & deserves to be punished.
 
jfuh said:
Terrorists also threaten one's family as do mobsters.
What now diffrentiates between the CIA interrogators vs a gangster?
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Not actually following through with the threats, for one thing.

:roll:
 
Zyphlin said:
...

THREATS of something is now "Torture"?
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Kinda stupid, innit?

Do I think we tortured? Yes.

Is this situation as described torture? Absolutely not.

Is it inappropriate? Not really. Threats are not torture.
 
Zyphlin said:
...

THREATS of something is now "Torture"?
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First of all....All the facts are not out yet & I believe actual acts of murder will be proven.
Second, threatening a prisoner with a drill or with execution is indeed torture under most internationally accepted treaties. (I believe including the Geneva conventions we signed)

They fall under psychological torture....which is still torture
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_torture_methods_and_devices[/ame]
 
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