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Thread: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Quote from Inspector Generals report.

    Any more questions??
    The detention of terror suspects, I agree with, as long as we follow proper protocols, they are provided with access to an attorney, and they aren't held without charges indefinitely.

    However, torture of suspects has not been shown to be more effective than normal interrogation techniques. In fact, it's less effective and trustworthy.

    Your source doesn't say what you are claiming it says. Just FYI.

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Wait...so the U.S. Embassy in Iraq hasn't been attacked in the past 8 years?

    U.S. Embassy in Iraq attacked

    U.S. Nabs 7 in Embassy attack

    2008 Consulate attack in Istanbul by Al-Qaeda

    Five killed in 2007 U.S. Embassy attack

    What was that?
    War zone, nice try though...
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    This country has never before countenanced state sponsored torture as a legitimate interrogation tool. That is inexcusable & deserves to be punished.
    Are you serious?? Techniques have been used throughout our history that would be considered torture today by the military, CIA, FBI, and the police. This is nothing new.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    First of all....All the facts are not out yet & I believe actual acts of murder will be proven.
    Second, threatening a prisoner with a drill or with execution is indeed torture under most internationally accepted treaties. (I believe including the Geneva conventions we signed)
    Well we all know how successful you've been with "proving" anything with all the "facts". You make a bunch of bogus claims that are in no way backed up and then puff up your chest going "Well, I'll be proven right in the future"



    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    War zone, nice try though...
    Goal posts keep on moving for you Mr. V.

    So George Bush has "protected" us from Terrorist attacks "on our soil" by bringing War to Our Soil then? The deaths on Our Soil is okay with him because he declared war, so he's not responsable for those terrorist attacks but Clinton is?

    So If Clinton had just said "we're at war" with them then hey, we couldn't even blame him for 9/11 because it seems to you from your earlier statements that attacks on the U.S. mainland is no different than attacks on embassies because "its our soil".

    Also, I'm confused....when'd we declare war in Istanbul? Or did declaring a "war on terror" just make it so you could justify any attack to be "part of the war" and thus keep Bush's record's perfect.

    I'm just trying to clarify. Your goal posts have sprouted legs and are running all over the field V so just trying to see where this ball needs to be kicked.

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Are you serious?? Techniques have been used throughout our history that would be considered torture today by the military, CIA, FBI, and the police. This is nothing new.
    Show me links where torture techniques were officially authorized by our government to interrogate prisoners? (prior to Bush that is)

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    The detention of terror suspects, I agree with, as long as we follow proper protocols, they are provided with access to an attorney, and they aren't held without charges indefinitely.

    However, torture of suspects has not been shown to be more effective than normal interrogation techniques. In fact, it's less effective and trustworthy.

    Your source doesn't say what you are claiming it says. Just FYI.
    I don't see how anyone can't read exactly what it says, but here is some more from the IG report:

    Detainee information has assisted in the identification of terrorists. For example, information from Abu Zubaydah helped lead to the identification of Jose Padilla and Binyam Muhammed--operatives who had plans to detonate a uranium-topped dirty bomb in either Washington, D.C. or New York City. Riduan "Hambali" Isomuddin provided information that led to the arrest of previously unknown members of an Al Qa'ida cell in Karachi. They were designated as pilots for an aircraft attack against the United States. Many other detainees, including lower-level detainees such as Zubayr and Majid Khan, have provided leads to other terrorists, but probably the most prolific has been Khalid Shaykh Muhammad. He provided information that helped lead to the arrest of terrorists including Sayfullah Paracha and his son Uzair Paracha, businessmen whom Khalid Shaykh Muhammad planned to use to smuggle explosives into the United States; Saleh Almari, a sleeper operative in New York; and Majid Khan, an operative who could enter the United States easily and was tasked to research attacks [redacted]. Khalid Shaykh Muhammad's information also led to the investigation and prosecution of Iyman Faris, the truck driver arrested in early 2003 in Ohio. [redacted]

    Detainees, both planners and operatives, have also made the Agency aware of several plots planned for the United States and around the world. The plots identify plans to [redacted] attack the U.S. Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan; hijack aircraft to fly into Heathrow Airport [redacted] loosen track spikes in an attempt to derail a train in the United States; [redacted]; blow up several U.S. gas stations to create panic and havoc; hijack and fly an airplane into the tallest building in California in a west coast version of the World Trade Center attack; cut the lines of suspension bridges in New York in an effort to make them collapse; [redacted].

    ...

    The waterboard has been used on three detainees....

    Prior to the use of EITs, Abu Zubaydah provided information for [redacted] intelligence reports. Interrogators applied the waterboard to Abu Zubaydah at least 83 times during August 2002. [The report explains that each application of water is counted separately, and most of the 83 applications lasted less than ten seconds.] During the period between the end of the use of the waterboard and 30 April 2003, he provided information for approximately [redacted] intelligence reports. It is not possible to say definitively that the waterboard is the reason for Abu Zubaydah's increased production, or if another factor, such as the length of detention, was the catalyst. Since the use of the waterboard, however, Abu Zubaydah has appeared to be cooperative.

    With respect to A-Nashiri, [redacted] reported two waterboard sessions in November 2002, after which the psychologist/interrogators determined that Al-Nashiri was compliant....Because of the litany of techniques used by different interrogators over a relatively short period of time, it is difficult to identify exactly why Al-Nashiri became more willing to provide information. However, following the use of EITs, he provided information about his most current operational planning and [redacted] as opposed to the historical information he provided before the use of EITs.

    On the other hand, Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, an accomplished resistor, provided only a few intelligence reports prior to the use of the waterboard, and analysis of that information revealed that much of it was outdated, inaccurate, or incomplete.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    With all due respect, Gill, the information you just provided says exactly what I just told you...that torture interrogation works no better (and perhaps worse) than normal interrogation techniques. Most of the interrogation used that provided useful information DID NOT INVOLVE torture.

    Here is what torture accomplishd:

    Prior to the use of EITs, Abu Zubaydah provided information for [redacted] intelligence reports. Interrogators applied the waterboard to Abu Zubaydah at least 83 times during August 2002. [The report explains that each application of water is counted separately, and most of the 83 applications lasted less than ten seconds.] During the period between the end of the use of the waterboard and 30 April 2003, he provided information for approximately [redacted] intelligence reports. It is not possible to say definitively that the waterboard is the reason for Abu Zubaydah's increased production, or if another factor, such as the length of detention, was the catalyst. Since the use of the waterboard, however, Abu Zubaydah has appeared to be cooperative.

    With respect to A-Nashiri, [redacted] reported two waterboard sessions in November 2002, after which the psychologist/interrogators determined that Al-Nashiri was compliant....Because of the litany of techniques used by different interrogators over a relatively short period of time, it is difficult to identify exactly why Al-Nashiri became more willing to provide information. However, following the use of EITs, he provided information about his most current operational planning and [redacted] as opposed to the historical information he provided before the use of EITs.

    On the other hand, Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, an accomplished resistor, provided only a few intelligence reports prior to the use of the waterboard, and analysis of that information revealed that much of it was outdated, inaccurate, or incomplete.
    And, a number of FBI field agents have noted that torture is significantly less effective than EIT. For the price (our national reputation), the information was gained was insufficient.

    thanks for playing.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 08-25-09 at 10:36 AM.

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well we all know how successful you've been with "proving" anything with all the "facts". You make a bunch of bogus claims that are in no way backed up and then puff up your chest going "Well, I'll be proven right in the future"
    Just keep watching the news.

    Edit: Would you point out some of these "Bogus Claims" you allude to above?
    Last edited by Devil505; 08-25-09 at 10:38 AM.

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    With all due respect, Gill, the information you just provided says exactly what I just told you...that torture interrogation works no better (and perhaps worse) than normal interrogation techniques. thanks for playing.
    Gotcha... so when the IG report say that all three of these terrorists starting singing like canaries after being water boarded, then in your mind, it had nothing to do with it...

    How's life at fantasy island..

    You're one of those people that wouldn't believe anything that disputed your predetermined beliefs. Have a nice day.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Gotcha... so when the IG report say that all three of these terrorists starting singing like canaries after being water boarded, then in your mind, it had nothing to do with it...

    How's life at fantasy island..

    You're one of those people that wouldn't believe anything that disputed your predetermined beliefs. Have a nice day.
    Clearly you didn't even read your own source, Gill.

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