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Thread: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    For someone who champions the constitutions and the rule of law, you sure are inconsistent in applying such things. If the end justifies your means, apparently none of it matters.
    I am constantly amused, or perhaps the correct choice of words would be stunned disbelief, when people desperately attempt to assert that non-uniformed enemy combatants and terrorists captured on foreign soil in battle with our troops are somehow entitled to the US Constitutional protections our citizens enjoy.

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I am constantly amused, or perhaps the correct choice of words would be stunned disbelief, when people desperately attempt to assert that non-uniformed enemy combatants and terrorists captured on foreign soil in battle with our troops are somehow entitled to the US Constitutional protections our citizens enjoy.
    That is arguable, and has been argued, repeatedly, over the past 8 years.

    However, what isn't arguable is that U.S. military forces are bound by the Uniform Code of Military Conduct, regarding treatment of captured prisoners, EITHER WAY.


    See, even if they're hostile insurgent terrorists, we're still AMERICANS. So the laws still apply TO US.

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    I'd have threatened his children, and arranged that he could father no more to prevent further attacks. I'd have vivisected him personally. I don't give a rat's toenail whether it would have led to a conviction-- that's something for polite society.

    People need to get a grip. What do you all think happens when we drop a bomb on some terrorist training camp to prevent attacks?

    I believe that people are confusing threatening his no doubt murderers-in-training offspring, and delivering on the threats.
    Last edited by Oftencold; 08-25-09 at 03:23 PM.
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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    I'd have threatened his children, and arranged that he could father no more to prevent further attacks. I'd have vivisected him personally. I don't give a rat's toenail whether it would have led to a conviction-- that's something for polite society.

    People need to get a grip. What do you all think happens when we drop a bomb on some terrorist raining camp to prevent attacks?

    I believe that people are confusing threatening his no doubt murderers-in-training offspring, and delivering on the threats.
    What many on the left fail to recognize is that from now on, these scumbags will be "interrogated" in the field, then shot trying to escape so that none of this crap happens in the future.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    I'd have threatened his children, and arranged that he could father no more to prevent further attacks. I'd have vivisected him personally. I don't give a rat's toenail whether it would have led to a conviction-- that's something for polite society.

    People need to get a grip. What do you all think happens when we drop a bomb on some terrorist raining camp to prevent attacks?

    I believe that people are confusing threatening his no doubt murderers-in-training offspring, and delivering on the threats.
    So is this about revenge or stopping terrorism to you? Lets be honest here. From what you just said it seems like you're taking a position based on how you feel. To torture seems to denote a total loss of control on the part of the interrogator who has lost control over the situation. So you take the activist position that our laws don't mean anything.

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    So is this about revenge or stopping terrorism to you? Lets be honest here. From what you just said it seems like you're taking a position based on how you feel. To torture seems to denote a total loss of control on the part of the interrogator who has lost control over the situation. So you take the activist position that our laws don't mean anything.
    I think you're mistaken. Information gained from terrorist suspects is used, in many cases, to kill their peers. Do you really have an issue with that?

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    That is arguable, and has been argued, repeatedly, over the past 8 years.

    However, what isn't arguable is that U.S. military forces are bound by the Uniform Code of Military Conduct, regarding treatment of captured prisoners, EITHER WAY.
    But this is not what is being debated in this thread is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    See, even if they're hostile insurgent terrorists, we're still AMERICANS. So the laws still apply TO US.
    And yet, no one can pinpoint what exact laws the CIA employees broke; what we have here is a lot of emotional partisan hyperbolic blather about "perceived" injustices where none have occurred in an attempt to impugn the previous administration or worse, the entire nation for purely political purposes, and where they have been discovered, the perpetrators were indeed prosecuted for those actions.

    This is indeed a PARTISAN effort; there is little support for this type of inquiry on the Republican side and even Obama himself has suggested this should be dropped before it become politically expedient for him to do what he is rapidly becoming known for; someone who seldom keeps his word and flip flops around just about every issue lacking substance or anything that could be remotely considered “leadership.”

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    That is arguable, and has been argued, repeatedly, over the past 8 years.

    However, what isn't arguable is that U.S. military forces are bound by the Uniform Code of Military Conduct, regarding treatment of captured prisoners, EITHER WAY.


    See, even if they're hostile insurgent terrorists, we're still AMERICANS. So the laws still apply TO US.
    It's not arguable. the GC specifically states that un-uniformed non-state actors aren't allowed protection under the law.

    The UCMJ only applies to legal combatants, as described by the GC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    What many on the left fail to recognize is that from now on, these scumbags will be "interrogated" in the field, then shot trying to escape so that none of this crap happens in the future.
    One can only wish; but we are truly beyond this kind of method for the most part which is something most of our enemies have no compunction about. Our troops will not act in this way unless of course they are overcome by emotion from the recent death of one of their comrades in arms.

    While I would not support or sanction such behavior, I certainly would not expect to prosecute a soldier if this occurred given the circumstances.

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    Re: CIA 'threatened September 11 suspect's children'

    You are incorrect. It has nothing whatever to do with revenge. It has to do with protecting our own.

    Your concept of harsh interrogation is about what I'd expect from someone constantly shielded from the underside of society. This is not derisiveness on my part, merely a long-term observation.

    What you call "torture" is not the loss of control, but the assertion of it. Foolishly, people who have never seen someone broken, accidentally, or purposely, claim the the target will "say anything to make the pain stop." But they fail to realize that someone properly so treated is pretty much incapable of lying-- the creative faculties require a certain positive self image to prevaricate.

    This is the nature of the world: sometimes very hard choices have to be made, hard things have to be done. History books are full of examples of people who chose wrongly, or failed to take necessary action. Living examples however are sparse.

    By the way, since you think my response emotional, know this. I could perform the midsection I mentioned while sipping lemonade and listening to Brahms.
    Last edited by Oftencold; 08-25-09 at 04:38 PM.
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