AP IMPACT: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws

[Binary_Digit]

This is the new formula for methamphetamine: a two-liter soda bottle, a few handfuls of cold pills and some noxious chemicals. Shake the bottle and the volatile reaction produces one of the world's most addictive drugs.

An Associated Press review of lab seizures and interviews with state and federal law enforcement agents found that the new method is rapidly spreading across the nation's midsection and is contributing to a spike in the number of meth cases after years of declining arrests. The new formula does away with the clutter of typical meth labs, and it can turn the back seat of a car or a bathroom stall into a makeshift drug factory. Some addicts have even made the drug while driving.

Source

Oops. I guess we need more band-aid solutions like a Federal ban on buying too many two-litre bottles of Dr. Pepper huh?

Or we could drop this pathetically impotent War on Drug Users for an actual War on Drugs. You know, one that correctly identifies drug addiction as a medical problem, not a criminal one, and provides solutions that actually help to reduce the demand for drugs.

But no, throwing addicts in jail gives too many people a warm and fuzzy feeling.

 

[RightinNYC]

Source

Oops. I guess we need more band-aid solutions like a Federal ban on buying too many two-litre bottles of Dr. Pepper huh?

Or we could drop this pathetically impotent War on Drug Users for an actual War on Drugs. You know, one that correctly identifies drug addiction as a medical problem, not a criminal one, and provides solutions that actually help to reduce the demand for drugs.

But no, throwing addicts in jail gives too many people a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Drug addiction is certainly at least partly a medical problem.

Drug manufacturing and trafficking is a criminal problem.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

One of the problems is that the drug warriors will never be as motivated as the drug users.

 

[rudedog]

This procedure probably produces very low yield drugs,and is more other chemicals.I say let them blow themselves up making it.If they can manage to kill themselves instead of just getting burnt,their will be no court or incarceration cost,a win -win situation.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I am all for decriminalizing marijuana and other soft drugs, but I can't see the benefit to society in decriminalizing Meth.

I don't see Meth Addiction as a medical problem. I see it more as a "your white trash ass is a f**king idiot for touching a drug like Meth in the first place". It has to be the worst drug you could possibly get strung out on. You may as well be getting hooked to arsenic.

 

[TheNextEra]

This procedure probably produces very low yield drugs,and is more other chemicals.I say let them blow themselves up making it.If they can manage to kill themselves instead of just getting burnt,their will be no court or incarceration cost,a win -win situation.

The problem with meth (and some other drugs) is that they don't just blow themselves up while making it, they blow themselves and sometimes innocent people with them.

 

[TOJ]

I am all for decriminalizing marijuana and other soft drugs, but I can't see the benefit to society in decriminalizing Meth.

I don't see Meth Addiction as a medical problem. I see it more as a "your white trash ass is a f**king idiot for touching a drug like Meth in the first place". It has to be the worst drug you could possibly get strung out on. You may as well be getting hooked to arsenic.

Bottom row looks like a typical mall in Arkansas.


.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Bottom row looks like a typical mall in Arkansas.


.

I am from Arkansas, but that was pretty funny.

 

[Binary_Digit]

I am all for decriminalizing marijuana and other soft drugs, but I can't see the benefit to society in decriminalizing Meth.

Can you name one benefit of keeping it illegal?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Can you name one benefit of keeping it illegal?

Drugs like marijuana pose no demonstrable ill effects to society other than possibly promoting obesity. So then the question is why are we pissing away billions trying to combat it, when that money and resources would be better spent combating drugs like Meth and Crack / Cocaine.

The problem with decriminalizing Meth is that you cannot safely manufacture it outside of an industrial facility. You can safely grow pot in your backyard, but you can't make meth safely in your garage. At minimum, the result is a mini toxic waste dump.

So you could not just stop with decriminalizing it, you would have to fully legalize the sale and production of it. Thus you would have to have a heavily regulated industry out there that produces Meth, which would of course be more expensive than what a Meth lab in someone's garage could make it for, and thus Meth addicts would still buy it on the black market. In the end, it accomplishes nothing but to make an extremely dangerous substance even more accessible than it is today.

 

[Kandahar]

Drugs like marijuana pose no demonstrable ill effects to society other than possibly promoting obesity. So then the question is why are we pissing away billions trying to combat it, when that money and resources would be better spent combating drugs like Meth and Crack / Cocaine.

Why are we pissing away billions trying to combat meth and crack cocaine, when that money and resouces would be better spent fighting REAL crime?

The problem with decriminalizing Meth is that you cannot safely manufacture it outside of an industrial facility. You can safely grow pot in your backyard, but you can't make meth safely in your garage. At minimum, the result is a mini toxic waste dump.

So if we decriminalize it, then it WILL get made in industrial facilities instead of people's garages. How many people still home-brew their beer (other than just as a hobby)? Not many.

So you could not just stop with decriminalizing it, you would have to fully legalize the sale and production of it. Thus you would have to have a heavily regulated industry out there that produces Meth, which would of course be more expensive than what a Meth lab in someone's garage could make it for, and thus Meth addicts would still buy it on the black market.

How do you know it would be more expensive? Have you done a cost/benefit analysis of opening an industrial meth factory?

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

Drug addiction is certainly at least partly a medical problem.

How is it anymore a criminal problem than alcohol abuse?

Drug manufacturing and trafficking is a criminal problem.

No matter what, people are going to want to get high. They can't get them through a legitimate market, so they go underground. Often the only way to resolve disputes in a black market is violence. A lot of violence in the inner cities results from this. Also, the government restrictions meen high start up costs. The Federal Government is the cartels' best friend

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Why are we pissing away billions trying to combat meth and crack cocaine, when that money and resouces would be better spent fighting REAL crime?

Because a nation of strung out meth addicts and crack whores raising the next generation does not exactly bode well for the future of the nation. If you are raising kids and smoking a little pot on the weekends, it very well could not negatively impact your parenting. Sure, there are pot heads out there just like there are drunks out there, but most people that drink don't end up alcoholics and most people that smoke pot don't end up as pot heads. The same cannot be said for meth, no one just occassionally uses it. Mess with it much, and your going to get hooked to it, and before long you are strung out all the time on it. So why make that easier? How does that serve society?

Moreover, if you think health care costs are high now, double the meth addicts and start treating it purely as a "medical problem".

So if we decriminalize it, then it WILL get made in industrial facilities instead of people's garages. How many people still home-brew their beer (other than just as a hobby)? Not many.

How do you know it would be more expensive? Have you done a cost/benefit analysis of opening an industrial meth factory?

Common ingredients in Beer:

Barley, Hops, Yeast, Water, sometimes Wheat.

Common ingredients in Meth:

Alcohol -
Gasoline additives/Rubbing Alcohol
Ether (starting fluid)
Benzene
Paint thinner
Freon
Acetone
Chloroform
Camp stove fuel
Anhydrous ammonia
White gasoline
Pheynl-2-Propane
Phenylacetone
Phenylpropanolamine
Rock, table or Epsom salt Red Phosphorous
Toluene (found in brake cleaner)
Red Devil Lye
Drain cleaner
Muraitic acid
Battery acid
Lithium from batteries
Sodium metal
Ephedrine
Cold tablets
Diet aids
Iodine
Bronchodialators
Energy boosters
Iodine crystals

What do you think is cheaper, paying to dispose of chemical waste in an industrial facility, or just throwing it out in in your backyard? Meth will always be cheaper to make in a garage than it will be to legitimately produce because of the costs of disposing of the waste associated with it and the fact that such large quantities can be easily made in meth lab.

 

[Kandahar]

Because a nation of strung out meth addicts and crack whores raising the next generation does not exactly bode well for the future of the nation.

You seem to be implying that the only thing standing between us and "a nation of strung out meth addicts and crack whores" is the fact that those substances are illegal. I'll need to see some evidence of this.

If you are raising kids and smoking a little pot on the weekends, it very well could not negatively impact your parenting. Sure, there are pot heads out there just like there are drunks out there, but most people that drink don't end up alcoholics and most people that smoke pot don't end up as pot heads. The same cannot be said for meth, no one just occassionally uses it. Mess with it much, and your going to get hooked to it, and before long you are strung out all the time on it. So why make that easier? How does that serve society?

People could seek treatment without feeling like criminals, they could buy from legitimate businesspeople instead of being pressured into using meth by scumbags, and it could carry surgeon general's warnings and purity regulations. Oh, and it would save prison space and taxpayer money.

On the other hand, the advantages of locking people in cages for using hard drugs are...?

Moreover, if you think health care costs are high now, double the meth addicts and start treating it purely as a "medical problem".

As it stands now, meth is not a particularly expensive drug (at least compared to some of the other hard drugs), nor is it particularly rare or difficult to obtain. So what makes you think that legalizing it would double the number of meth addicts...or even significantly increase the number at all?

Common ingredients in Beer:

Barley, Hops, Yeast, Water, sometimes Wheat.

Common ingredients in Meth:

Alcohol -
Gasoline additives/Rubbing Alcohol
Ether (starting fluid)
Benzene
Paint thinner
Freon
Acetone
Chloroform
Camp stove fuel
Anhydrous ammonia
White gasoline
Pheynl-2-Propane
Phenylacetone
Phenylpropanolamine
Rock, table or Epsom salt Red Phosphorous
Toluene (found in brake cleaner)
Red Devil Lye
Drain cleaner
Muraitic acid
Battery acid
Lithium from batteries
Sodium metal
Ephedrine
Cold tablets
Diet aids
Iodine
Bronchodialators
Energy boosters
Iodine crystals

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of those substances sound particularly expensive.

What do you think is cheaper, paying to dispose of chemical waste in an industrial facility, or just throwing it out in in your backyard? Meth will always be cheaper to make in a garage than it will be to legitimately produce because of the costs of disposing of the waste associated with it and the fact that such large quantities can be easily made in meth lab.

On the other hand, the industrial facility will have economies of scale, people who actually know how to run a business, and employees who aren't hooked on meth. Those are some pretty big advantages over the garage lab.

 

[Color]

Regardless of whether it's legal or not, people will continue to produce meth in "garage labs." Allowing that would be like legalizing reckless driving, it's ridiculously unsafe and puts other people in danger. A government would not be providing well for it's citizens if it lessened prosecution of people involved in this.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

You seem to be implying that the only thing standing between us and "a nation of strung out meth addicts and crack whores" is the fact that those substances are illegal. I'll need to see some evidence of this.

You are telling me that legalizing and thus legitimizing Meth will reduce the number of people on it?

People could seek treatment without feeling like criminals, they could buy from legitimate businesspeople instead of being pressured into using meth by scumbags,

You must have not known too many meth addicts, its mostly scumbags that are on it. No one pressured them into do into doing it. Most of them started doing it to be able to spend more time partying.

and it could carry surgeon general's warnings and purity regulations.

Right, because seeing a typical meth addict evidently was not enough to keep other future addicts from trying it, they need to have a couple of sentences on the side of the package for it warning them about the effects.

Oh, and it would save prison space and taxpayer money.

When did I argue that we should lock people up simply for being an addict?

As it stands now, meth is not a particularly expensive drug (at least compared to some of the other hard drugs), nor is it particularly rare or difficult to obtain. So what makes you think that legalizing it would double the number of meth addicts...or even significantly increase the number at all?

Anytime you legitimize the use of something then you will increase the number of people using it. Prohibition failed because even Jesus drank thus large portions of the population saw nothing wrong with it. Right now, the fact that Meth is a hard drug associated with white trash, a lot of people won't touch it. Make it legal, and thats going to change.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of those substances sound particularly expensive.
On the other hand, the industrial facility will have economies of scale, people who actually know how to run a business, and employees who aren't hooked on meth. Those are some pretty big advantages over the garage lab.

1. Rest assured, a typical drug dealer knows how to run a business.

2. If you think not being on Meth and working an 8 hour day is an advantage in terms of production over a meth addict that is up for days on end, then once again, you must not have been around many of them.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Meth will always be cheaper to make in a garage than it will be to legitimately produce because of the costs of disposing of the waste associated with it and the fact that such large quantities can be easily made in meth lab.

I really don't think this is true.
There are reasons why most people don't make their own aspirin, liquor, build their own houses or grow their own food.
Sure, some people do these things--but for the most of us is more efficient for us to w/e it is that we do and just pay someone else to do it better than we can.
I don't know the actual numbers, but I would be willing to bet a fair amount that the economies of scale would make it just much much cheaper per unit of production for a a Pfizer or Perrigo to make high quality, pure amphetamines than for MethJeff to make some half-assed crap in his back shed.
How many people do you know who make their own wine or beer? Have you asked them about the price per unit of their beverage?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I really don't think this is true.
There are reasons why most people don't make their own aspirin, liquor, build their own houses or grow their own food.
Sure, some people do these things--but for the most of us is more efficient for us to w/e it is that we do and just pay someone else to do it better than we can.
I don't know the actual numbers, but I would be willing to bet a fair amount that the economies of scale would make it just much much cheaper per unit of production for a a Pfizer or Perrigo to make high quality, pure amphetamines than for MethJeff to make some half-assed crap in his back shed.
How many people do you know who make their own wine or beer? Have you asked them about the price per unit of their beverage?

So assuming this is possible, making and thus selling meth significantly cheaper than it sells for now will reduce the number of addicts?

Personally I can't see how pfizer selling meth for 5 dollars a quarter improves society. Moreover, that does not even get into the costs of legal defense any company that made it would face.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

So assuming this is possible, making and thus selling meth significantly cheaper than it sells for now will reduce the number of addicts?
Personally I can't see how pfizer selling meth for 5 dollars a quarter improves society.

I didn't try to make that/these point(s). I was just pointing out my earnest belief that a multinational pharma company coud churn out a better product for less cost than a cottage industry can. I base this on the fact that in few cases (if any) have cottage industries been able to compete with modern manufacturing.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I didn't try to make that/these point(s). I was just pointing out my earnest belief that a multinational pharma company coud churn out a better product for less cost than a cottage industry can. I base this on the fact that in few cases (if any) have cottage industries been able to compete with modern manufacturing.

You are probably right there.

 

[Kandahar]

You are telling me that legalizing and thus legitimizing Meth will reduce the number of people on it?

I don't know that it will actually REDUCE the number, but I see no reason to believe that it would significantly increase.

You must have not known too many meth addicts, its mostly scumbags that are on it. No one pressured them into do into doing it. Most of them started doing it to be able to spend more time partying.

Right, because seeing a typical meth addict evidently was not enough to keep other future addicts from trying it, they need to have a couple of sentences on the side of the package for it warning them about the effects.

Couldn't hurt. Regardless, that was only one reason I cited for legalizing it.

When did I argue that we should lock people up simply for being an addict?

What do you think should be done with them?

Anytime you legitimize the use of something then you will increase the number of people using it. Prohibition failed because even Jesus drank thus large portions of the population saw nothing wrong with it. Right now, the fact that Meth is a hard drug associated with white trash, a lot of people won't touch it. Make it legal, and thats going to change.

Why would it change? If it was legalized, would meth cease to be a hard drug associated with white trash? Do you believe that the legality of meth is really what dissuades people from using it?

1. Rest assured, a typical drug dealer knows how to run a business.

He may think so, but only because his only competitors are other typical drug dealers. If actual businesspeople started competing with him, he'd be out of business in a couple weeks.

2. If you think not being on Meth and working an 8 hour day is an advantage in terms of production over a meth addict that is up for days on end, then once again, you must not have been around many of them.

Well forget that the factory is producing meth, as the actual product is irrelevant. Make a managerial decision: Would you rather hire someone addicted to meth, or someone not addicted to meth?

 

[First Thought]

The problem with meth (and some other drugs) is that they don't just blow themselves up while making it, they blow themselves and sometimes innocent people with them.

Cars sometimes blow up on innocent people... Should they be illegal?

 

[First Thought]

Regardless of whether it's legal or not, people will continue to produce meth in "garage labs." Allowing that would be like legalizing reckless driving, it's ridiculously unsafe and puts other people in danger. A government would not be providing well for it's citizens if it lessened prosecution of people involved in this.

If Methamphetamine was a legal substance, garage labs would not exist.

 

[Dav]

Cars sometimes blow up on innocent people... Should they be illegal?

Cars sometimes save lives, and are extremely useful in everyday life. Meth... not so much.

 

[Oftencold]

But no, throwing addicts in jail gives too many people a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Have you ever seen the old newsreels of China's solution to the opium addiction problem back in the 1930s I believe?

It was street executions.

They stacked coffins by the roadsides for days before hand to let the addicts know it was coming.

When the deadline was reached, they rounded the druggies up, and fired bullets into their compromised brains at point blank range. End of problem, except for the cleanup.

Did you notice the huge damage done to Chinese society by the executions? You didn't? I wonder why. Could it have been because there was little or none?

Being more humane that the past Chinese regime, I merely advocate public flogging for a first offense, and lifelong slaver for a second.

We have a whole lot of problems in this country, recreational addicts do not rate high on my list of good investments for public funds. If I had my way, dealers would be forced to consume their own products until dead.