Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 52

Thread: AP IMPACT: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws

  1. #11
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: AP IMPACT: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Drugs like marijuana pose no demonstrable ill effects to society other than possibly promoting obesity. So then the question is why are we pissing away billions trying to combat it, when that money and resources would be better spent combating drugs like Meth and Crack / Cocaine.
    Why are we pissing away billions trying to combat meth and crack cocaine, when that money and resouces would be better spent fighting REAL crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat
    The problem with decriminalizing Meth is that you cannot safely manufacture it outside of an industrial facility. You can safely grow pot in your backyard, but you can't make meth safely in your garage. At minimum, the result is a mini toxic waste dump.
    So if we decriminalize it, then it WILL get made in industrial facilities instead of people's garages. How many people still home-brew their beer (other than just as a hobby)? Not many.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat
    So you could not just stop with decriminalizing it, you would have to fully legalize the sale and production of it. Thus you would have to have a heavily regulated industry out there that produces Meth, which would of course be more expensive than what a Meth lab in someone's garage could make it for, and thus Meth addicts would still buy it on the black market.
    How do you know it would be more expensive? Have you done a cost/benefit analysis of opening an industrial meth factory?
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  2. #12
    Devourer of Poor Children
    DrunkenAsparagus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    DC
    Last Seen
    01-20-16 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,496

    Re: AP IMPACT: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Drug addiction is certainly at least partly a medical problem.

    How is it anymore a criminal problem than alcohol abuse?

    Drug manufacturing and trafficking is a criminal problem.
    No matter what, people are going to want to get high. They can't get them through a legitimate market, so they go underground. Often the only way to resolve disputes in a black market is violence. A lot of violence in the inner cities results from this. Also, the government restrictions meen high start up costs. The Federal Government is the cartels' best friend

  3. #13
    Pragmatist
    SouthernDemocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    KC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,410

    Re: AP IMPACT: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why are we pissing away billions trying to combat meth and crack cocaine, when that money and resouces would be better spent fighting REAL crime?
    Because a nation of strung out meth addicts and crack whores raising the next generation does not exactly bode well for the future of the nation. If you are raising kids and smoking a little pot on the weekends, it very well could not negatively impact your parenting. Sure, there are pot heads out there just like there are drunks out there, but most people that drink don't end up alcoholics and most people that smoke pot don't end up as pot heads. The same cannot be said for meth, no one just occassionally uses it. Mess with it much, and your going to get hooked to it, and before long you are strung out all the time on it. So why make that easier? How does that serve society?

    Moreover, if you think health care costs are high now, double the meth addicts and start treating it purely as a "medical problem".


    So if we decriminalize it, then it WILL get made in industrial facilities instead of people's garages. How many people still home-brew their beer (other than just as a hobby)? Not many.

    How do you know it would be more expensive? Have you done a cost/benefit analysis of opening an industrial meth factory?

    Common ingredients in Beer:


    Barley, Hops, Yeast, Water, sometimes Wheat.

    Common ingredients in Meth:


    Alcohol -
    Gasoline additives/Rubbing Alcohol
    Ether (starting fluid)
    Benzene
    Paint thinner
    Freon
    Acetone
    Chloroform
    Camp stove fuel
    Anhydrous ammonia
    White gasoline
    Pheynl-2-Propane
    Phenylacetone
    Phenylpropanolamine
    Rock, table or Epsom salt
    Red Phosphorous
    Toluene (found in brake cleaner)
    Red Devil Lye
    Drain cleaner
    Muraitic acid
    Battery acid
    Lithium from batteries
    Sodium metal
    Ephedrine
    Cold tablets
    Diet aids
    Iodine
    Bronchodialators
    Energy boosters
    Iodine crystals

    What do you think is cheaper, paying to dispose of chemical waste in an industrial facility, or just throwing it out in in your backyard? Meth will always be cheaper to make in a garage than it will be to legitimately produce because of the costs of disposing of the waste associated with it and the fact that such large quantities can be easily made in meth lab.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 08-25-09 at 11:38 PM.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  4. #14
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: AP IMPACT: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Because a nation of strung out meth addicts and crack whores raising the next generation does not exactly bode well for the future of the nation.
    You seem to be implying that the only thing standing between us and "a nation of strung out meth addicts and crack whores" is the fact that those substances are illegal. I'll need to see some evidence of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat
    If you are raising kids and smoking a little pot on the weekends, it very well could not negatively impact your parenting. Sure, there are pot heads out there just like there are drunks out there, but most people that drink don't end up alcoholics and most people that smoke pot don't end up as pot heads. The same cannot be said for meth, no one just occassionally uses it. Mess with it much, and your going to get hooked to it, and before long you are strung out all the time on it. So why make that easier? How does that serve society?
    People could seek treatment without feeling like criminals, they could buy from legitimate businesspeople instead of being pressured into using meth by scumbags, and it could carry surgeon general's warnings and purity regulations. Oh, and it would save prison space and taxpayer money.

    On the other hand, the advantages of locking people in cages for using hard drugs are...?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat
    Moreover, if you think health care costs are high now, double the meth addicts and start treating it purely as a "medical problem".
    As it stands now, meth is not a particularly expensive drug (at least compared to some of the other hard drugs), nor is it particularly rare or difficult to obtain. So what makes you think that legalizing it would double the number of meth addicts...or even significantly increase the number at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat
    Common ingredients in Beer:

    Barley, Hops, Yeast, Water, sometimes Wheat.

    Common ingredients in Meth:


    Alcohol -
    Gasoline additives/Rubbing Alcohol
    Ether (starting fluid)
    Benzene
    Paint thinner
    Freon
    Acetone
    Chloroform
    Camp stove fuel
    Anhydrous ammonia
    White gasoline
    Pheynl-2-Propane
    Phenylacetone
    Phenylpropanolamine
    Rock, table or Epsom salt
    Red Phosphorous
    Toluene (found in brake cleaner)
    Red Devil Lye
    Drain cleaner
    Muraitic acid
    Battery acid
    Lithium from batteries
    Sodium metal
    Ephedrine
    Cold tablets
    Diet aids
    Iodine
    Bronchodialators
    Energy boosters
    [FONT=Verdana]Iodine crystals
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of those substances sound particularly expensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat
    What do you think is cheaper, paying to dispose of chemical waste in an industrial facility, or just throwing it out in in your backyard? Meth will always be cheaper to make in a garage than it will be to legitimately produce because of the costs of disposing of the waste associated with it and the fact that such large quantities can be easily made in meth lab.
    On the other hand, the industrial facility will have economies of scale, people who actually know how to run a business, and employees who aren't hooked on meth. Those are some pretty big advantages over the garage lab.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  5. #15
    User
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last Seen
    08-26-09 @ 01:34 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1

    Re: AP IMPACT: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws

    Regardless of whether it's legal or not, people will continue to produce meth in "garage labs." Allowing that would be like legalizing reckless driving, it's ridiculously unsafe and puts other people in danger. A government would not be providing well for it's citizens if it lessened prosecution of people involved in this.

  6. #16
    Pragmatist
    SouthernDemocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    KC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,410

    Re: AP IMPACT: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You seem to be implying that the only thing standing between us and "a nation of strung out meth addicts and crack whores" is the fact that those substances are illegal. I'll need to see some evidence of this.
    You are telling me that legalizing and thus legitimizing Meth will reduce the number of people on it?

    People could seek treatment without feeling like criminals, they could buy from legitimate businesspeople instead of being pressured into using meth by scumbags,
    You must have not known too many meth addicts, its mostly scumbags that are on it. No one pressured them into do into doing it. Most of them started doing it to be able to spend more time partying.

    and it could carry surgeon general's warnings and purity regulations.
    Right, because seeing a typical meth addict evidently was not enough to keep other future addicts from trying it, they need to have a couple of sentences on the side of the package for it warning them about the effects.

    Oh, and it would save prison space and taxpayer money.
    When did I argue that we should lock people up simply for being an addict?

    As it stands now, meth is not a particularly expensive drug (at least compared to some of the other hard drugs), nor is it particularly rare or difficult to obtain. So what makes you think that legalizing it would double the number of meth addicts...or even significantly increase the number at all?
    Anytime you legitimize the use of something then you will increase the number of people using it. Prohibition failed because even Jesus drank thus large portions of the population saw nothing wrong with it. Right now, the fact that Meth is a hard drug associated with white trash, a lot of people won't touch it. Make it legal, and thats going to change.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of those substances sound particularly expensive.
    On the other hand, the industrial facility will have economies of scale, people who actually know how to run a business, and employees who aren't hooked on meth. Those are some pretty big advantages over the garage lab.
    1. Rest assured, a typical drug dealer knows how to run a business.

    2. If you think not being on Meth and working an 8 hour day is an advantage in terms of production over a meth addict that is up for days on end, then once again, you must not have been around many of them.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  7. #17
    Ideologically Impure
    Simon W. Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fayettenam
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,945
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: AP IMPACT: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Meth will always be cheaper to make in a garage than it will be to legitimately produce because of the costs of disposing of the waste associated with it and the fact that such large quantities can be easily made in meth lab.
    I really don't think this is true.
    There are reasons why most people don't make their own aspirin, liquor, build their own houses or grow their own food.
    Sure, some people do these things--but for the most of us is more efficient for us to w/e it is that we do and just pay someone else to do it better than we can.
    I don't know the actual numbers, but I would be willing to bet a fair amount that the economies of scale would make it just much much cheaper per unit of production for a a Pfizer or Perrigo to make high quality, pure amphetamines than for MethJeff to make some half-assed crap in his back shed.
    How many people do you know who make their own wine or beer? Have you asked them about the price per unit of their beverage?
    I may be wrong.

  8. #18
    Pragmatist
    SouthernDemocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    KC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,410

    Re: AP IMPACT: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I really don't think this is true.
    There are reasons why most people don't make their own aspirin, liquor, build their own houses or grow their own food.
    Sure, some people do these things--but for the most of us is more efficient for us to w/e it is that we do and just pay someone else to do it better than we can.
    I don't know the actual numbers, but I would be willing to bet a fair amount that the economies of scale would make it just much much cheaper per unit of production for a a Pfizer or Perrigo to make high quality, pure amphetamines than for MethJeff to make some half-assed crap in his back shed.
    How many people do you know who make their own wine or beer? Have you asked them about the price per unit of their beverage?
    So assuming this is possible, making and thus selling meth significantly cheaper than it sells for now will reduce the number of addicts?

    Personally I can't see how pfizer selling meth for 5 dollars a quarter improves society. Moreover, that does not even get into the costs of legal defense any company that made it would face.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  9. #19
    Ideologically Impure
    Simon W. Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fayettenam
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,945
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: AP IMPACT: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    So assuming this is possible, making and thus selling meth significantly cheaper than it sells for now will reduce the number of addicts?
    Personally I can't see how pfizer selling meth for 5 dollars a quarter improves society.
    I didn't try to make that/these point(s). I was just pointing out my earnest belief that a multinational pharma company coud churn out a better product for less cost than a cottage industry can. I base this on the fact that in few cases (if any) have cottage industries been able to compete with modern manufacturing.
    I may be wrong.

  10. #20
    Pragmatist
    SouthernDemocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    KC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,410

    Re: AP IMPACT: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I didn't try to make that/these point(s). I was just pointing out my earnest belief that a multinational pharma company coud churn out a better product for less cost than a cottage industry can. I base this on the fact that in few cases (if any) have cottage industries been able to compete with modern manufacturing.
    You are probably right there.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •