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Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

kaya'08 said:
If this hunting harms the enviournment due to the yearly, and large losses, of fox numbers, therefore damaging the sensitive balance of the ecosystem, i believe its every right of the government to get involved.

Another reason imo, fox hunting isnt something that can be regulated by government regulators. It may be an illegal practise to use dogs during fox hunting, but who says they wont use that method of hunting against the Foxes? And if so who will see or say anything? Its the countryside. So they just banned the practice outright. Again, imo.
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There's illegal hunting in the US as well. If you have hunters register with the government, it's easier to regulate.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
There's illegal hunting in the US as well. If you have hunters register with the government, it's easier to regulate.
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Registered hunters? Sure but what does that do? How can registered hunters be regulated in practice?
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
Shooting a fox is no more cruel than eating a hamburger. You don't need to do either, but they both die for one's enjoyment. It is often an upper class hobby, but I already adressed this.
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The term fox hunting doesn't refer to just shooting a fox though. That's not what we're all talking about. Do you actually know how fox-hunts go on in the UK?
 
Because you don't force it undeground, more hunters will visible to the government. As you said, people are going to do it anyway. Might as well not make all hunters criminals and mostly go after ones that seriously harm fox populations.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
Because you don't force it undeground, more hunters will visible to the government.
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I disagree. Most things are invisible in the countryside. :2razz:

As you said, people are going to do it anyway. Might as well not make all hunters criminals and mostly go after ones that seriously harm fox populations.
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Its far easier to ban it outright then put yourself out of your way to conduct an invistigation in the middle of no where to track down a handful of hunters who use dogs.
 
Anima said:
Hunting in the US is pretty disimliar to the methods of fox-hunting parties in the UK, which is what we're talking about in this thread. What we're saying here about class issues and cruelty isn't necessarily a dig at US hunters, because it's not you guys, nor your methods, that we're debating.
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The class issue stuff is just silly though, it is only the antis who try and bring class into it. It isn't even a particularly valid representation of the custom of fox hunting today.
 
kaya'08 said:
Registered hunters? Sure but what does that do? How can registered hunters be regulated in practice?
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Are you suggesting all hunting be banned? I can see two sides of the coins with traditional fox hunting but the idea that all hunting be banned is abhorrent, nanny-state stuff. Why not ban fishing as well or all slaughtering of animals? Sure it should be regulated so that at certain times you can only hunt certain animals and if needs be there should be permits but hunting itself sure as hell should not be banned, to do so is an egregious interference with individual freedom for political correct reasons.
 
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Wessexman said:
Are you suggesting all hunting be banned? I can see two sides of the coins with traditional fox hunting but the idea that all hunting be banned is abhorrent, nanny-state stuff. Why not ban fishing as well or all slaughtering of animals? Sure it should be regulated so that at certain times you can only hunt certain animals and if needs be there should be permits but hunting itself sure as hell should not be banned, to do so is an egregious interference with individual freedom for political correct reasons.
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Im not advocating all hunting should be banned. But this seems a good scenario to do it in.
Regardless, just because its a hobby for some, doesn't justify there actions as far as im concerned. Sorry, "its part of British culture" just doesn't cut it for me.
 
kaya'08 said:
Im not advocating all hunting should be banned. But this seems a good scenario to do it in.
Regardless, just because its a hobby for some, doesn't justify there actions as far as im concerned. Sorry, "its part of British culture" just doesn't cut it for me.
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And just because some people have some objections to minor violence to animals in an ancient and still important cultural practice for some communities that doesn't justify their sticking their noses in where they don't belong.

Let's separate the issues. Banning regular hunting done in a sustainable way is just tyranny, it is an invasion of the individual's liberty for no other reason than PC objections to animals being killed -- despite the fact it is little different from the slaughterhouse. There is nothing wrong with killing an animal, particularly for food, in general. The idea I can't shoot rabbits on my own property for eating and selling is just abhorrent, something worthy of China or the EU.

Fox hunting with hounds is different. I can see the legitimacy in some of the objections, I believe violence to the foxes should be minimised but I also recognise that to some rural communities it is a thriving tradition and key social event and that does balance out some of the objections to me. However a compromise could easily be reached if the antis were just a little more reasonable and a little less authoritarian.

It is this sort of virulent desire by middle-class urbanites to stick their noses in as if they were our masters and show nothing but contempt and gross miscomprehension of countryfolk that makes us dig our heals in. Approach us in a reasonable and respectful way and generally you will treated likewise.
 
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Anima said:
If I'd actually said anything even vaguely like that, you might have a point. All I said was that criticism of the British practice of fox-hunting should not automatically be taken as criticism of hunting in other nations and hunting using other methods.
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My mistake,,,sorry.

Take care.
 
Wessexman said:
The class issue stuff is just silly though, it is only the antis who try and bring class into it. It isn't even a particularly valid representation of the custom of fox hunting today.
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You can think it's a silly point, but it's a true one none the less.
 
Wessexman said:
And just because some people have some objections to minor violence to animals in an ancient and still important cultural practice for some communities that doesn't justify their sticking their noses in where they don't belong.
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If you dont think such violence against these animals is enough a reason to butt our noses in, then hell, i cant help you! :lol:

Let's separate the issues. Banning regular hunting done in a sustainable way is just tyranny, it is an invasion of the individual's liberty for no other reason than PC objections to animals being killed -- despite the fact it is little different from the slaughterhouse. There is nothing wrong with killing an animal, particularly for food, in general. The idea I can't shoot rabbits on my own property for eating and selling is just abhorrent, something worthy of China or the EU.
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People eat the foxes?

Unfortunately, these creatures are killed for fun, its simply a hobby to these posh stuck up retards. Animal rights and protecting them from unnecessary violent practices cannot be classified as "PC objections", because there is nothing PC about it. As well as using unnecessary, savage methods, but the mass killings of these animals during the hunting period is a blow to the countryside's ecosystem. You have no argument. You chose to ignore animal rights (as if committing a crime on your own property is OK), and work in favor of a hobby of a handful of wealthy British folk that claim there small scale savage hobby is an "ancient British practice". Making Egg and Bacon is an ancient British hobby, not killing foxes. Perhaps you should evaluate your idea of what British tradition really is, especially if your going to use it against the Elitists.

Fox hunting with hounds is different. I can see the legitimacy in some of the objections, I believe violence to the foxes should be minimised but I also recognise that to some rural communities it is a thriving tradition and key social event and that does balance out some of the objections to me. However a compromise could easily be reached if the antis were just a little more reasonable and a little less authoritarian.
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Regulating something as wild scale as fox hunting to meet certain hunting criteria is impractical and it cannot be done. Your far better off banning the practice outright. Again, highlighted area doesnt mean jack to me and its not enough to justify savagery.

It is this sort of virulent desire by middle-class urbanites to stick their noses in as if they were our masters
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Oh, so your part of the upper crust of Britain are you, and us evil middle class-ums are your masters? :lol:
 
kaya'08 said:
Im not advocating all hunting should be banned. But this seems a good scenario to do it in.
Regardless, just because its a hobby for some, doesn't justify there actions as far as im concerned. Sorry, "its part of British culture" just doesn't cut it for me.
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I don't think any 'anti' wishes to ban hunting in its entirety.
It is the methods i think we have problems with
 
Laila said:
I don't think any 'anti' wishes to ban hunting in its entirety.
It is the methods i think we have problems with
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As somebody who has researched groups like PETA, I gotta call BS on this. Thee are groups who want the entirety of hunting outlawed.
 
Travelsonic said:
As somebody who has researched groups like PETA, I gotta call BS on this. Thee are groups who want the entirety of hunting outlawed.
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Yeah, but that's Peta for you. There's out-liers in any group, but to my recollection, no-one who's argued against fox-hunting on this thread supports the complete abolition of hunting.
 
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Travelsonic said:
As somebody who has researched groups like PETA, I gotta call BS on this. Thee are groups who want the entirety of hunting outlawed.
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There is a PETA in UK?

I thought we had RSPCA.

My point is no one wants hunting banned. Just the animal killed as quickly as possible.
 
Laila said:
There is a PETA in UK?

I thought we had RSPCA.

My point is no one wants hunting banned. Just the animal killed as quickly as possible.
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Apparently, aye. I found a PETA UK website just the now. They're hardly a proinent voice in the UK animal rights movement though. We just have the SSPCA up here, and that's about it.
 
Anima said:
Apparently, aye. I found a PETA UK website just the now. They're hardly a proinent voice in the UK animal rights movement though. We just have the SSPCA up here, and that's about it.
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We have the NSPCA. :rock
 
Anima said:
Apparently, aye. I found a PETA UK website just the now. They're hardly a proinent voice in the UK animal rights movement though. We just have the SSPCA up here, and that's about it.
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I have never heard of them personally in UK.
Why don't they do any of their crazy 'tricks' here like they do in US?
 
NSPCC = Children
NSPCA and RSPCA = Animals

Slightly sad when there is two national charities for animals and one for children ... :doh
 
Laila said:
NSPCC = Children
NSPCA and RSPCA = Animals
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Ha i caught your little edited comment "dude thats for children". Your guilty as charged.

On the topic never heard of PETA in the UK.
 
kaya'08 said:
Ha i caught your little edited comment "dude thats for children". Your guilty as charged.

On the topic never heard of PETA in the UK.
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Yeah i mistaked the 'A' for 'C'

So guilty.
 
Travelsonic said:
As somebody who has researched groups like PETA, I gotta call BS on this. Thee are groups who want the entirety of hunting outlawed.
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I couldn't agree more on PETA. They haven't a clue for the most part, of the Natural World. About ten years ago, there was a News Blip on PETA releasing a Sea Otter that'd had been rescued from a oil spill on the West Coast. They'd nursed it back to health. And had a bus load of kids from the local school come out to watch the "Release Back to Nature". :roll:

The Otter cuts loose toward the Ocean, and starts swimming off. All the kids are clapping their hands in joy... Then the Shark came along, and the "Natural Cycle" of Nature unfolded before their eyes. Not a dry eye to be seen after that...:roll: They witnessed a "Hunt" in action.:lol:
 
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