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Thread: Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

  1. #231
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    Re: Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Never heard of those two. Just in Scotland perhaps?
    Barnardo's, really? I thought that was a UK wide one. They used to run orphanages and now they run education centres and out-reach programs to kids with behavioural and learning difficulties, campaign on children's issues and assist children from vulnerable homes.

    EDIT: Yep, Barnardo's is UK-wide. Their head-quarters are in East London.
    Last edited by Anima; 08-26-09 at 08:27 PM.
    "I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
    Alex Salmond, First Minister of Scotland, Scottish National Party

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    Re: Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

    Quote Originally Posted by Anima View Post
    You can think it's a silly point, but it's a true one none the less.
    True in what sense? It is a gross misrepresentation. Hunts are far from just dominated by toffs and more importantly so what if they were? It is the left and antis making it a class issue and hence it is silly.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #233
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    Re: Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    If you dont think such violence against these animals is enough a reason to butt our noses in, then hell, i cant help you!
    We didn't ask for your help.



    People eat the foxes?

    Unfortunately, these creatures are killed for fun, its simply a hobby to these posh stuck up retards. Animal rights and protecting them from unnecessary violent practices cannot be classified as "PC objections", because there is nothing PC about it. As well as using unnecessary, savage methods, but the mass killings of these animals during the hunting period is a blow to the countryside's ecosystem. You have no argument. You chose to ignore animal rights (as if committing a crime on your own property is OK), and work in favor of a hobby of a handful of wealthy British folk that claim there small scale savage hobby is an "ancient British practice". Making Egg and Bacon is an ancient British hobby, not killing foxes. Perhaps you should evaluate your idea of what British tradition really is, especially if your going to use it against the Elitists. [/QUOTE]Firstly you have been asked to prove the massive damage to the fox-hunting population and have not? So that can be dismissed. Secondly you are continuing the misrepresentation, of which you have no proof, and I can tell you fox-hunting is far from just for the rich. So that isn't a point. Thirdly I see nothing wrong with hunting for fun in a sustainable way.

    We are not talking about torturing any animal just for fun here but a bit more violence than regular hunting for an ancient practice that has an important cultural and ritual place in rural communities. I weigh that up against the violence and if the urbanites are not willing to deal with us respectfully I say the violence is worth it.




    Regulating something as wild scale as fox hunting to meet certain hunting criteria is impractical and it cannot be done. Your far better off banning the practice outright. Again, highlighted area doesnt mean jack to me and its not enough to justify savagery.
    You're far off better trying to compromise or not only will you be in the current situation where the Tories are going to bring it all back but the resentment will be created in the countryside.


    Oh, so your part of the upper crust of Britain are you, and us evil middle class-ums are your masters?
    What upper-crust. It is your side using that gross misrepresentation which is quite ironic after you defence of corporate-capitalism.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #234
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    Re: Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    We are not talking about torturing any animal just for fun here but a bit more violence than regular hunting for an ancient practice that has an important cultural and ritual place in rural communities. I weigh that up against the violence and if the urbanites are not willing to deal with us respectfully I say the violence is worth it.
    But it is for fun and sport.

    It is not done for necessity. Foxes can be culled in a more simpler and less ... expensive and extravangant way.
    Nor is it done for food. That too would be acceptable to me. Do hunters eat the foxes they tear apart?

    It is done for fun, for the joy of the ride and that is unacceptable and should not be tolerated.
    Kill it with a bullet to the head, don't torture the animal for a sport.


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    Re: Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    But it is for fun and sport.

    It is not done for necessity. Foxes can be culled in a more simpler and less ... expensive and extravangant way.
    Nor is it done for food. That too would be acceptable to me. Do hunters eat the foxes they tear apart?

    It is done for fun, for the joy of the ride and that is unacceptable and should not be tolerated.
    Kill it with a bullet to the head, don't torture the animal for a sport.
    Indeed it is. What is your point? It has a very important cultural and ritual place in some rural communities however. To me, without the other side being willing to compromise, that is more important than a bit of violence to some foxes and the pleadings of middle class urbanites.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  6. #236
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    Re: Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

    The tradition argument does not cut if for me nor should it be a way out from the law and a way to justify that blood sport.

    I can compromise just fine.
    Hunt without the dogs and shoot the fox, clean bullet to the head.
    There is my compromise. I'd say i am being extremley reasonable seeing i hate the practice of fox hunting to begin with. I just met you more than halfway


  7. #237
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    Re: Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    The tradition argument does not cut if for me nor should it be a way out from the law and a way to justify that blood sport.
    But you are not a county person, so it isn't your business. And I think it should be justification for this small amount of violence, certainly over its total banning. If we removed every tradition because of these kinds of minor, PC objections we'd have none left. I don't know way you keep talking about the law though, we are discussing it being lifted not breaking it now. If Cameron gets his way it won't be against the law.

    I can compromise just fine.
    Hunt without the dogs and shoot the fox, clean bullet to the head.
    There is my compromise. I'd say i am being extremley reasonable seeing i hate the practice of fox hunting to begin with. I just met you more than halfway
    The dogs are necessary, having the foxes shot and training the dogs to simply drive them out would be better in my book.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #238
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    Re: Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    If Cameron gets his way it won't be against the law.

    The dogs are necessary, having the foxes shot and training the dogs to simply drive them out would be better in my book.
    Every tradition does not involve a blood sport tyvm.

    As i said, welcome to the world of politics which has no limit on its reach. Being in the country does not make you immune from the law, nor does tradition.

    And how do we ensure the dogs do not tear the fox apart? That the hunt 'group' do not break the law and allow it to happen anyway?
    Hunt. Just hunt without the hounds.

    No doubt he will but i can shut up for a few years until Labour comes back and revokes and reverses it


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    Re: Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Every tradition does not involve a blood sport tyvm
    So? Many can be faulted on the left-liberal, univeralist ideal of gov't. It pretty much has no place for tradition, particularlism or the diversity of human society and human nature beyond the sterile symmetry of its schemes.
    As i said, welcome to the world of politics which has no limit on its reach.
    Are you quoting Hobbes, Rousseau, the Jacobins, Marx or Lenin there?

    Conservatives, decentralists and those who believe in limited gov't, good gov't and liberty disagree.

    Being in the country does not make you immune from the law, nor does tradition.
    We are talking about what the law should be. It should respect tradition and subsidiarity/ decentralisation.
    And how do we ensure the dogs do not tear the fox apart? That the hunt 'group' do not break the law and allow it to happen anyway?
    Hunt. Just hunt without the hounds.
    How do we ensure the hunters don't accidentally shoot each other?

    We make sure they the dogs are trained other than that there is little need for any more intervention. The risk of the dogs going too far is certainly not enough to justify complete repression.

    Hounds flush out the foxes, they are necessary.

    No doubt he will but i can shut up for a few years until Labour comes back and revokes and reverses it
    And then we'll wait until the Tories are back in again. A great way to turn the countryside blue and raise resentment. Why don't you try and be respectful and compromise instead?
    Last edited by Wessexman; 08-26-09 at 10:32 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

    But until such assurances are given and extremtley harsh punishment to anyone who breaks it. Ban hounds until further notice.
    I met more than halfway with this. How far can you compromise.

    So? I can play ping pong as much as anyone else. Hardly deters me.
    The country votes is not as much as city votes.
    I would hardly care if it turns blue or not if i was a labour strategist seeing it is mainly blue anyway.
    I'd care about all the major cities in UK and Scotland. Done deal.


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