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Thread: Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession

  1. #21
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    Re: Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession

    I think that the intent of the bill was to cut down on police corruption. To discourage police from extorting small time users.
    In part, I think this because it was mentioned it the couple of articles that I read about it.

    So, it doesn't seem to be directed at any of the targets people in this thread have said it won't achieve. Instead it seems to be directed at a form of police corruption. I am just going by what the Mexicans said. So I may be way off.

    All imho, ymmv.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Do the people who support a complete drug legalization know anything about crime other then jaywalking and buying dimes every few days? Drug cartels making 20 billion dollars a year on cocaine deals don't disappear because we make drug consumption legal.
    Actually they do. Or at least they'd have to find a new line of work. What's the point in operating a huge criminal empire if the product you sell is legal (and therefore the profit margins are much lower)? How often do you see criminal organizations selling legal products/services as their main line of business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey
    This silliness that most libertarians and a lot of liberals seem to believe regarding drug crime is that it's the sort of criminal offense which if legalized would result in the disappearance of drug houses, human slavery etc. and then they bring up alcohol & Prohibition.

    The worst example to back a case for legalizing drugs would be Prohibition at the start of the century. Why? Because the competitions bootleggers faced and that which drug dealers face were not the same and the products were not the same.
    How were they not the same? Both were constantly under pressure from the police as well as their criminal competitors. Both decided that the potential profit margins were worth the risk. Both answered to vast criminal enterprises (the Mafia for alcohol, the drug cartels for drugs).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey
    Alcohol, unless you're ridiculously allergic to it or decide to drink an insane amount would almost never, or under most normal circumstances simply can't kill a person. You can't say the same for cocaine, heroin, meth & dozens of other drugs.
    Irrelevant. We have now gone from talking about drug cartels and the economics/sociology of legalization, to talking about whether or not their product can kill you. There are plenty of legal products that can kill people. This has nothing to do with anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey
    How much do you want to bet that Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson and Bayer would NEVER take a gamble on drugs harder then marijuana for that very reason?
    You're talking about pharmaceutical companies who are in the business of providing drugs for medicinal purposes. Of course they would have no interest in hard drugs (except for those purposes). But there are plenty of other companies who provide drugs for recreational purposes (liquor stores, tobacco stores, etc) who would.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey
    So then what would we have? Criminal drug cartels who are now allowed to conduct business legally.
    The mere act of legalization means that they would no longer have a reason to exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey
    They'll still force hundreds if not thousands of people around the world to produce drugs in the jungles of Bolivia or the valleys of Afghanistan.
    Uhh most of those farmers CHOOSE to grow those crops because they make more money than alternative crops (and even the ones who don't are forced to do so because of the high profit margin). I'll give you three guesses what makes those crops so expensive. Hint: It ain't the substances themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey
    They'd still destroy entire families with their drugs and the only difference would be that it would all be perfectly legal. Thanks but I'd rather pay taxes and have the DEA make their lives a little harder.
    The DEA is the only thing keeping the cartels alive. And which "destroys entire families" more often - drugs or the DEA? At best, it's a tossup.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-22-09 at 05:35 PM.
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    Re: Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Do the people who support a complete drug legalization know anything about crime other then jaywalking and buying dimes every few days? Drug cartels making 20 billion dollars a year on cocaine deals don't disappear because we make drug consumption legal.
    Yea, because the black market for cigarettes and alcohol is totally booming right now.

    This silliness that most libertarians and a lot of liberals seem to believe regarding drug crime is that it's the sort of criminal offense which if legalized would result in the disappearance of drug houses, human slavery etc. and then they bring up alcohol & Prohibition.
    Yea, because the black market for cigarettes and alcohol is totally booming right now.

    The worst example to back a case for legalizing drugs would be Prohibition at the start of the century. Why? Because the competitions bootleggers faced and that which drug dealers face were not the same and the products were not the same. Alcohol, unless you're ridiculously allergic to it or decide to drink an insane amount would almost never, or under most normal circumstances simply can't kill a person. You can't say the same for cocaine, heroin, meth & dozens of other drugs. How much do you want to bet that Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson and Bayer would NEVER take a gamble on drugs harder then marijuana for that very reason?
    Huh?

    So then what would we have? Criminal drug cartels who are now allowed to conduct business legally. They'll still force hundreds if not thousands of people around the world to produce drugs in the jungles of Bolivia or the valleys of Afghanistan. They'd still destroy entire families with their drugs and the only difference would be that it would all be perfectly legal. Thanks but I'd rather pay taxes and have the DEA make their lives a little harder.
    Re: Portugal.

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/gr...whitepaper.pdf

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    Re: Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession

    Are they "getting it" or capitulating while large numbers of dismembered, decapitated, or otherwise executed bodies are inconveniently piling up about their troubled country?
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    Re: Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Are they "getting it" or capitulating while large numbers of dismembered, decapitated, or otherwise executed bodies are inconveniently piling up about their troubled country?
    Capitulation, for sure. It's a sign of weakness and the cartels are going to exploit the hell out of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession

    Why does everyone think this is supposedly an attempt to alleviate Cartel violence?

    It is not.

    This is just simply putting into paper what was more or less already the reality in Mexico.

    The causation and the solution to cartel violence are both to be found in the U.S.
    Last edited by marduc; 08-22-09 at 09:17 PM.

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    Re: Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Capitulation, for sure. It's a sign of weakness and the cartels are going to exploit the hell out of it.
    What makes you think that cartels have any interest in seeing drugs be legalized?
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    Re: Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What makes you think that cartels have any interest in seeing drugs be legalized?
    I don't think the cartels care, either way. They're going to control the market the way they always have, legal drugs, or no legal drugs. As I pointed out in an earlier thread, what are you going to do? Legalize murder and attach a surcharge to it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I don't think the cartels care, either way. They're going to control the market the way they always have, legal drugs, or no legal drugs.
    What makes you think so? When has any major crime organization ever sold a legal product as their main line of business?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    As I pointed out in an earlier thread, what are you going to do? Legalize murder and attach a surcharge to it?
    The difference is that a good many of the problems associated with drugs (e.g. overdosing, violence, drug-related theft) are CAUSED by their illegality and many others (e.g. addiction, sales to children) aren't exactly caused by illegality but are definitely made worse. On the other hand, murder is illegal because it IS the problem itself.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-22-09 at 09:46 PM.
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    Re: Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I don't think the cartels care, either way. They're going to control the market the way they always have, legal drugs, or no legal drugs. As I pointed out in an earlier thread, what are you going to do? Legalize murder and attach a surcharge to it?
    ohh of course.. everyone will continue to buy drugs from their illegal sources in shady deals instead of driving to the local retailer who attained their supply through legitimate channels.

    How is it that the cartels would continue to control the product if they are cut out of the loop?

    They are not needed to produce them, they are not needed to distribute them, and if drugs were ever to be legalized they sure as hell would not be who we turn to for our supply
    Last edited by marduc; 08-22-09 at 09:52 PM.

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