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Thread: Obama to hike 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

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    Re: Obama to hike 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

    Terms of the Chrysler Bankruptcy:

    Out of the 4 big players (read: creditors)---stockholders, Daimler, the US taxpayer and the UAW---everyone gets totally screwed by the administration's bankruptcy terms except darling UAW which comes out relatively smelling like a rose.

    First of all, recall that lawyer Thomas Lauria, representing a Chrysler creditor, accused Obama's Car Czar Steven Rattner of threatening to use the White House Press Office to destroy the reputation of Perella-Weinberg if the investment bank did not cease its opposition to the UAW payoff which is the Chrysler bankruptcy, which Parella-Weinberg performed an immediate about-face and complied.

    The point---this precise Chrysler bankruptcy deal appears to be smudged all over with Obama's fingerprints. Indeed, dents delivered by hammer blow might make a more meaningful metaphor.

    And the UAW is obviously the admin's golden child.

    While banks, investors and the US taxpayer are clearly Rattner's red headed adoptees.

    Freckled all over.

    Stockholders: owed 6.9 billion dollars by the obsolete auto, private investors have been promised 2 bil, or 29 cents on the dollar.

    Daimler, holder of 2.0 billion dollars of useless claim, experiences the very expression of emptiness, the former makers of Mercedes-Benz receiving not a deutschmark, totally dissed, to the delight of Detroit's riveters and welders.

    The taxpayer put up 4 billion TARP dollars, plus an additional 300 million in fees. Not only were you and I deeded the same nada dealt to Daimler, we're all committed to an extra 3.2 billion going forward.

    And if Chrysler by some phony miracle continues to crank out cars, Obama has promised to pony up another 4.7 billion of public support.

    The taxpayer does, though, hold 8% of Chrysler's remaining equity, however questionable the quality.

    The UAW, in contrast, was awarded ownership of 55% of whatever existing assetts there are---cars already produced, physical plant, capital, presumably the Chrysler Building in New York.

    The UAW was owed 10.5 billion dollars by Chrysler. The underworked, overpaid riveters, the very assassins of the golden goose, get 4.6 billion in cash, 43 cents per sawbuck.

    The UAW also won 600 million from Daimler towards those exact legacy costs that more than any single factor murdered our domestic auto industry.

    Our legacy costs alone render us unable to compete with foreign manufacturers.

    The UAW also gets to pick one of the 9 directors of whatever Chrysler product, hypothetically, I presume, persists from this point on.

    Congress, ie, the Democratic Party, chooses 4 for the Board, giving the riveters a majority.

    The Canadian government gets to select a director, as well. Chrysler ran a couple factories north of the border, and Ottawa put up a few hundred mil Canadian in some mapley version of TARP.

    Canada also controls 2% of Chrysler's equity, counting on FIAT to come to the company's rescue.

    Fix-It-Again-Tony would get 35%.

    The US taxpayer, promised rich rewards when TARP was put out there, gets nothing for his billions bailed IN except ownership of 8% of a car company which looks only to lose more money, and the commitment to contribute billions more.

    The UAW was given almost 50 cents on the dollar, while stockholders saw less than .30, and Daimler and Uncle Sam got squat. And the riveters receive 55% of the equity to poor Sam's 8%.

    The workers killed the goose, then greedily gobbled the greatest portion of the affluent fowl's final fruit.

    While Obama smiled on.

    (first posted may 11)

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    Re: Obama to hike 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Obama to hike 10-year deficit to $9 trillion | U.S. | Reuters

    His parting shot before taking off for two weeks: more debt.

    Rather nice of him to admit that the CBO had a better grasp of his shopaholism than his own people.

    And what will be his solution to all this debt? Why, more spending of course!
    B.O. needs to GO... I'm selling "T" shirts by the hundreds with that Slogan. Out of the local Flea Market. With the "Joker Face" on it.

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    Re: Obama to hike 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by TBone View Post
    Funny how you call them Obamabots. You were the best goose step-per when GW was your leader.
    No I wasn't, grow up.
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    Re: Obama to hike 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post


    The workers killed the goose, then greedily gobbled the greatest portion of the affluent fowl's final fruit.
    Labour accounts for less than 7 per cent of the total cost of a car.

    Your claim that the workers killed the goose is simply impossible.

    First and foremost, because the math does not add up.

    And secondly because the goose is not dead.

    GM stock is a buyers dream.

    Imagine, a company that should have gone under is rescued, it maintained most of its massive size; and now, it is sporting a clean balance sheet, and the backing of a government.
    Last edited by The_Limt; 08-23-09 at 12:53 AM.

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    Re: Obama to hike 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

    tell it to the stockholders who got 29 cents on the dollar

    tell it to daimler which got squat

    tell it to the US taxpayer, out 4.3 BILLION so far, and committed to another 3.2 if needed

    you didn't think of the above before knee jerking your mindless argumentations?

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    Re: Obama to hike 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Limt View Post
    Labour accounts for less than 7 per cent of the total cost of a car.

    GM stock is a buyers dream.

    Imagine, a company that should have gone under is rescued, it maintained most of its massive size; and now, it is sporting a clean balance sheet, and the backing of a government.
    Two things, first of all you should compare that 7% to other labor costs for other, competing automobile companies.

    Secondly, no it's not. As you've already seen, common shareholders (holders of what is termed 'equity') get shafted completely, bondholders get shafted (holders of what is termed 'debt') and the government shows little sign of changing that strategy. Why you think it is a good buy, is just beyond me.

    And that whole "I won't buy a share of GM until they stop losing market share" Gestalt, always a consideration.

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    Re: Obama to hike 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

    legacy costs alone, according to popular mechanics, come to $2000 per car

    i don't hold by pop-mech's rather off handed arrival (about as thoughtful as one of your posts, limit)

    but the point certainly holds---legacy costs alone exceed 7%

    legacy costs, as even uaw was forced to concede, rendered domestic autos unable to compete

    GM in Crisis?5 Reasons Why America's Largest Car Company Teeters on the Edge - Popular Mechanics

    also, according to gm itself, labor costs for gm products exceed those of toyotas made in the US by FORTY FOUR %

    More On Total Hourly Labor Costs: GM Vs. Toyota | Daily Markets

    NPR: GM vs. Toyota: By the Numbers

    argumentation so mindless it's almost a personal insult
    Last edited by The Prof; 08-23-09 at 02:15 AM.

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    Re: Obama to hike 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Limt View Post
    Labour accounts for less than 7 per cent of the total cost of a car.

    Your claim that the workers killed the goose is simply impossible.

    First and foremost, because the math does not add up.

    And secondly because the goose is not dead.

    GM stock is a buyers dream.

    Imagine, a company that should have gone under is rescued, it maintained most of its massive size; and now, it is sporting a clean balance sheet, and the backing of a government.
    You are spreading some of the worst misinformation I can imagine.

    DETROIT Whether it's a matter of ignorance or greed, people are still buying General Motors stock, even though the company and the government have warned that the shares will someday be worthless.

    Investors are picking up millions of shares every day, thinking they'll profit from what is really a hodgepodge of outdated factories and a pile of debt left behind when the new General Motors Co. exited bankruptcy court protection.

    Instead, they could end up losing money very quickly. The price of the shares, currently under $1, has ratcheted up or down as much as 50 cents in one day.

    On Thursday, investors traded 13.9 million shares, and the stock closed at 85 cents, down 4.1 percent. The old GM stock had a higher trading volume than big, viable companies like retailer CVS Caremark Corp., banker Capital One Financial Corp. and consumer products maker Procter & Gamble Co.

    Industry analysts and regulators say two groups are buying Motors Liquidation stock: People who are confused and think they are getting shares of the new GM for cheap, and day traders or institutional investors hoping for short-term gains as others continue buying the stock.

    GM and federal regulators say they have done all they can to warn investors, giving old GM the appropriate moniker of Motors Liquidation Co., issuing multiple public warnings and changing the stock symbol from GMGMQ to MTLQQ.PK.

    "There are people who think they are buying the new General Motors. Stop. You're not. You're buying the detritus," said Harlan Platt, a finance professor at Northeastern University who follows corporate bankruptcies.
    The Associated Press: Traders keep buying old GM stock, despite warnings

    But by all means, keep buying. You're making some junior analyst at Goldman very happy.
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    Re: Obama to hike 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Limt View Post
    A dark path?

    Not really. It has more to do with practicality than partisanship.

    TARP was needed. Both Dems and GOP during the campaign agreed. The Banks could not under any circumstances be allowed to fail.

    The business community aggresively lobbied Congress for TARP. They knew and understood the peril the US faced more than most.

    It had to be done, much the same way a collapsed bridge over a very important commerical road has to be re-constructed.

    The stimulus package?

    Again, another round of monetary infusion that was needed.
    Your post makes me snore because it lacks logic. Excite me!!!

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    Re: Obama to hike 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

    I posted a similar graphic a few pages back. I think it's important to post this again because, well, a picture is worth a thousand words.

    What the Obama administration is doing is UNPRECEDENTED in history. They're driving the U.S. taxpayer off a cliff and whistling as they go...

    Look at this very carefully.

    Very carefully.


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