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Thread: Lawyers Showed Photos of Covert CIA Officers to Guantanamo Bay Detainees

  1. #41
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    Re: Lawyers Showed Photos of Covert CIA Officers to Guantanamo Bay Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I know I would not have done it, but if it is not illegal, there really isn't anything we can do about it.
    Even if the government doesn't end up determining that any laws were broken, there are still ethical considerations to be brought up to the judge or to the state bars.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Lawyers Showed Photos of Covert CIA Officers to Guantanamo Bay Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Even if the government doesn't end up determining that any laws were broken, there are still ethical considerations to be brought up to the judge or to the state bars.
    So they could still be punished even if it is not actually illegal? If the rules are there, I got no problem with that, though you probably could have guessed that.

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    Re: Lawyers Showed Photos of Covert CIA Officers to Guantanamo Bay Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So they could still be punished even if it is not actually illegal? If the rules are there, I got no problem with that, though you probably could have guessed that.
    Yea, it would be a punishment by the state bar association or by the judge if they find that their actions violate legal ethics rules. Not a criminal thing.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Lawyers Showed Photos of Covert CIA Officers to Guantanamo Bay Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I know I would not have done it, but if it is not illegal, there really isn't anything we can do about it.
    Exposing the identity of covert operators is illegal. There was a Congressional act passed in 1982 that made such exposures illegal. There's very little question about this being illegal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Lawyers Showed Photos of Covert CIA Officers to Guantanamo Bay Detainees

    The only thing amazing about this is the reaction of the hyper-partisan liberals.

    Even I did not expect that kind of reaction. Wow.

    They need to investigate and then punish the guilty party's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Lawyers Showed Photos of Covert CIA Officers to Guantanamo Bay Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeFromWI View Post
    Thier status as "unlawful combatants" with no right to habeus corpus and detainment without probable cause or further rights is also unlawful.
    Labeling them unlawful combatants and denying them Habeus Corpus is not unlawful. They are not citizens, they are not civilians, they are not common criminals, and they are not soldiers as codified under the Geneva Conventions, so what are they? Clearly they are unlawful combatants. They have the rights to be tried by military tribunal, and if convicted imprisoned or executed, the same as FDR did with the German Saboteurs who were actually captured on American soil, actions which were found completely Constitutional under the Ex Parte Quirin decision of the SCOTUS. The only difference in these cases is that FDR was smart enough not inform the public and get them high priced ACLU lawyers.

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    Re: Lawyers Showed Photos of Covert CIA Officers to Guantanamo Bay Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeFromWI View Post
    I say we look to our Constitution and to International law for an answer. It is understood that it's easier said than done. Thank you kindly for the clarifications though.
    Yes check out the preamble of the Constitution first, these are non-citizens, whereas the Constitution was created by the "People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America," so first of all the Constitution doesn't even apply to these people, but let's assume falsely that the founders ever intended the Constitution to apply to foreign war criminals, next we can go to Article 1 Section 9 which reads: "The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it," now foreign jihadists crossing our borders posing as average innocent foreign nationals going about murdering U.S. civilians by the thousands would certainly constitute as both an invasion and an insurrection.

    Now we can move onto international law, the Geneva Conventions are quite clear on who is and who is not entitled to POW status and Geneva Convention protections:

    "Art 4. A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

    (1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

    (2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

    (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
    (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
    (c) that of carrying arms openly;
    (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war."

    Oops they don't fall under a,b,c, or d.

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    Re: Lawyers Showed Photos of Covert CIA Officers to Guantanamo Bay Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeFromWI View Post
    Article 4 of the Third Geneva Convention
    I suggest you read it they clearly don't fall under the conditions necessary to be labeled POW's, they are not commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates, they do not have a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, they do not carrying arms openly and they sure as hell do not conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

    Tell me what subsection of Article 4 do you believe they fall under?

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    Re: Lawyers Showed Photos of Covert CIA Officers to Guantanamo Bay Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeFromWI View Post
    (d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples. . ."
    The military commissions became regularly constituted courts as soon as the MCA was passed by Congress.

    Regardless the SCOTUS's reading of Common Article 3 is a bold faced farce, "not of an international character" is in clear reference to a civil war, by definition these are international terrorists.

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    Re: Lawyers Showed Photos of Covert CIA Officers to Guantanamo Bay Detainees

    Here is what I wrote.

    ""please post threads started by yourself that expressed outrage or concern for lawbreaking under the Bush Administration?"

    Unable to do this....you go off and list 5 lame links where you were criticizing Congress as a whole (your number #1 link) or GOP Congressman after they admitted or were found guilty of wrongdoing (links #2-5)

    I'll ask you again!!! Can you please post a link where you were critical or questioning of the Bush Administration for alleged lawbreaking?

    Here is you questioning whether it is OK for Government to lie to the public.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...-citizens.html
    Last edited by dragondad; 08-25-09 at 11:41 AM.

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