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Thread: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

  1. #61
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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    Quote Originally Posted by Slainte View Post
    Do you know what evidence there was against Megrahi?

    Do you know the circumstances surrounding his extradition and trial?

    Do you understand the political pressure there was to get some type of conviction?

    Are you even interested?

    Or would you rather just transform a complicated issue into a simplistic and ugly round of populist hand wringing?
    He was found guilty in a court of law. What part of that is hard for you to understand.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  2. #62
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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    He was found guilty in a court of law. What part of that is hard for you to understand.
    Which one of my questions was hard for you to understand?
    We all live under the same sky, but we don't all have the same horizon

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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released - CNN.com



    Ok, I lean on the liberal side, but this is killing me. This guy killed 270 people as a terrorist and they are "showing him mercy," because he has a terminal illness!!!!!? That's karma bitch! He should have rotted and died in prison. Thoughts?
    I lean liberal, that is for certain, but that does not mean I think people don't deserve the punishments they bring upon themselves. This man was not in prison for rehabilitation, he was in for punishment and this situation is just a part of the punishment.

  4. #64
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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    Quote Originally Posted by Slainte View Post
    Do you know what evidence there was against Megrahi?

    Do you know the circumstances surrounding his extradition and trial?

    Do you understand the political pressure there was to get some type of conviction?

    Are you even interested?
    Then please enlighten us about the evidence used to convict him seeing how you claim to know what happened.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Then please enlighten us about the evidence used to convict him seeing how you claim to know what happened.
    I posted this in an earlier thread:

    I simply fail to see how anyone who has the followed the case in reasonable depth can not believe there is a "reasonable doubt" about Megrahi's guilt. The star witness for the prosecution was, according to the head of the prosecution, completely unreliable. Without him there was absolutely nothing concrete against Megrahi. On top of this a further important witness has admitted he lied at the trial, although what he lied about is unclear. Finally there is evidence that large parts of the intelligence community never even suspected Libya in the first place! In fact a very common view in Lockerbie itself was that it was a Palestinian/Iranian plot to avenge the Vincennes, which exploited a horrendous screw up by the CIA. Several experts in Scottish law, as well as UN observers, have raised massive questions over the trial and most people in Lockerbie itself remain utterly unconvinced.

    When you view all this in the context of the relationship between the UK and Libya and the strong desire to, firstly, isolate him in the late 80's early 90's and then later reconcile with him after the Iraq war. There was a strong political desire to "drop" the Lockerbie issue and the only way it could be done was for Qaddafi to hand over the suspects, so he did. Once they were in British hands the only way to get closure on the whole issue was to get a conviction. I can not see how any judge, let alone 3, could convict him beyond a reasonable doubt without feeling some kind of pressure, even if indirect. So while there is no hard evidence, and if you thought critically for a second you would realise there is no way there could be, if you ask the simple questions: was a conviction politically convenient? Was there enough evidence to justify a conviction? Was the guy convicted? You get a pretty nasty picture forming!
    In regards to the star witness, a Maltese shop keeper called Tony Gauci. Gauci was the only man who provided a concrete link between Megrahi and Pan Am 103, he claimed to have sold Megrahi clothing which was found in the suitcase which carried the bomb. However it was later revealed that Gauci picked Megrahi out of a line-up only after he had seen a picture of him in a magazine and that he had been paid $2 million by the US to give evidence. To confound this at the trial he appeared indecisive and confused about what happened and in the words of the head of the prosecution was " a few apples short of a picnic".

    To further this there is known to be a secret document relating to the trial which the UK government will not publish, it is believed to reveal that the detonator used on Pan Am 103 was made in Syria, not in East Germany by a company Megrahi had links too, this was essentally the other major piece of evidence against Megrahi, however even without this, having links to a company which builds detonators of the type used in Pan AM 103 is not proof of anything.

    If anyone knows of important evidence I am omitting I hope they wil add it.
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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    They should have made the plane he flew out on using the same technology they use for predator drones...

    No need to explain any further.

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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    Quote Originally Posted by Slainte View Post
    I posted this in an earlier thread:



    In regards to the star witness, a Maltese shop keeper called Tony Gauci. Gauci was the only man who provided a concrete link between Megrahi and Pan Am 103, he claimed to have sold Megrahi clothing which was found in the suitcase which carried the bomb. However it was later revealed that Gauci picked Megrahi out of a line-up only after he had seen a picture of him in a magazine and that he had been paid $2 million by the US to give evidence. To confound this at the trial he appeared indecisive and confused about what happened and in the words of the head of the prosecution was " a few apples short of a picnic".

    To further this there is known to be a secret document relating to the trial which the UK government will not publish, it is believed to reveal that the detonator used on Pan Am 103 was made in Syria, not in East Germany by a company Megrahi had links too, this was essentally the other major piece of evidence against Megrahi, however even without this, having links to a company which builds detonators of the type used in Pan AM 103 is not proof of anything.

    If anyone knows of important evidence I am omitting I hope they wil add it.
    If you are going to claim stuff you should post credible sources.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    Even rotting in prison is too good for that pieice of human fecal matter. I also am disgusted beyond belief over this piece of Scotish injustice!!
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If you are going to claim stuff you should post credible sources.
    This was the finding of the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission, for your ease I am linking to a BBC article and not the entire document which is hundreds of pages long, however if you desire it is easy enough to trace to sources:

    Here are some extracts from the grounds for appeal:

    * A1. The court erred in finding that the date of the purchase of the clothes from the shop at Mary's House, 63 Tower Street, Sliema, Malta, was December 7 1988.

    There was no proper basis on the evidence for the finding that the date of the purchase of the clothes was either November 23 or December 7 1988.

    * A4. The court failed to advance adequate reasons for preferring Gauci's identification of the appellant by resemblance of a photo, at identification parade and in court, to earlier descriptions of the purchaser which did not match the appellant.

    * A5. The court failed to deal with and resolve the contradictions and inconsistencies in the evidence of Gauci regarding the date of the purchase and the identity of the purchaser.

    * A6. The evidence of identification was not of such character, quality or strength to justify a finding that the appellant was the clothes buyer.

    The court failed properly to take account of the significant body of evidence referred to above which pointed away from December 7 as the date of purchase.

    * B1. The court misdirected itself as to the accuracy of the records from Frankfurt Airport from which it found that an inference could be drawn that an unaccompanied bag travelled on KM 180 from Luqa airport to Frankfurt and was there loaded on to PA103A.

    * B4. The documents and other evidence from Frankfurt, properly construed, were not of sufficient strength, quality or character to enable the court to conclude that an unaccompanied bag from KM 180 was transferred to and loaded on to PA103A.

    * B10. The court failed to take account of the defence submission that the fact that the primary suitcase was located at or near to the optimum position to achieve its destructive purpose gave rise to an inference that the device was ingested at Heathrow airport.

    * B11. There exists significant evidence which was not heard at the trial. It demonstrates that at some time in the two hours before 12.35am on December 21 1988 a padlock had been forced on a secure door giving access to airside in Terminal 3 of Heathrow Airport, near to the area referred to in the trial as the "baggage build-up area".

    Had this evidence been available at the trial it would have supported the body of evidence suggestive of the bomb having been infiltrated at Heathrow.

    BBC NEWS | In Depth | Appeal grounds at-a-glance
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  10. #70
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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    Quote Originally Posted by Anima View Post
    I dsiagree. I think we've ade completely the rigt call on this one. He was a monster. We're not. Why should we stoop to his level by showing no compassion or mercy?

    We as a society are BETTER than these idiots. Let's not think we should show them inhumanity because they have behaved inhumanely.
    Better?
    I believe a more fitting word is stupid.

    Scotland is showing compassion to someone show showed none to his victims.
    And no, there is no 'we'
    This decision had nothing to do with England, Wales or Northern Ireland. That is how devolution works remember.

    This was Scotland's stupid decision
    Last edited by Laila; 08-21-09 at 08:53 AM.


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