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Thread: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

  1. #101
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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Nope, you've simply engaged in purposeless repetition of an irrelevant statement about his legal conviction without actual discussion of the nature of his trial or the disputes related to his trial. If this were a True Debate, you would have long since lost, and even the casual reader of this thread can quite easily see that you're not faring especially well.
    A true debate, a false debate, any kind of debate and you'd still be falsely accusing me of not saying something that I clearly said, and just quoted and put it right in your face.
    I would make the conclusion that you are deliberately trying to dodge the acceptance that your fleet was just destroyed and that you'll have to return to planet Agna with no achievements at all.
    If #2 was a failure, it was because #1 was a failure also. You never made any particularly sound claim to begin with, so there was really no need to issue a sound rebuttal. All you did was claim that Megrahi was guilty merely by virtue of his legal conviction and ignore the contentions that had arisen about the nature and alleged deficiencies of his trial. You continue to do so even now.
    #1 can't be a failure by definition, and even if we are to go blunt and assume that it is a failure it is because #2 had rudely taken #1's role without even asking for a permission.
    So am I. Based on the length of your responses (despite their lack of content)I was concerned that there might be some misimpression that you were informed about the case.
    Well fortunately your concerns were in vain.
    No, that's merely a fallacy bred by your apparent confusion. If I'd merely mentioned that there was a complaint by a UN official without offering further elaboration, you might have a point. However, I instead offered detailed criticisms of alleged deficiencies in Megrahi's trial that you chose not to respond to. Their source wasn't even relevant to their validity.
    My apparent confusion is in Mexico on a vacation and is obviously not here to breed any kind of fallacy.
    Perhaps your apparent confusion needs to take a vacation as well, as it started confusing your apparent logic.
    If there was no legitimate risk of him engaging in violent or threatening actions, then he perhaps should be, especially if any trial would simply result in acquittal anyway. In the U.S., we have a Constitutional prohibition of "double jeopardy." I know that you unfortunately don't live in a democratic country with a Constitution, so you'd perhaps be unaware of this.
    Constitutions are for weaklings anyway, a democracy can work well with unwritten values and key-laws.
    Which one? Considering the many irrationalities of the legal system itself, your claims seem to be contradictory.
    Yeah, that damned legal system, let's just throw it away and use whatever else we have in store.
    Oh right, that would be.. nothing.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  2. #102
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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    A terrible decision.

    But one that is out of our hands.

    The Scots had their reasons for his release, I regretfully and strongly disagree.

    Though I do want to add McCaskill looked good on CNN offering his reasons for what I think is a perverted decision.

  3. #103
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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    The Etic Reality on whether he committed the crime or not is not relevant to this thread.

    Whether or not the Criminal Justice System prosecuted the case properly is not relevant to this thread.

    Whether or not a "majority" of the families of the victims believe in his guilt or innocence and whether or not a "majority" think he should die with his relatives are not relevant to this thread.

    What is relevant is whether it is appropriate to free someone dully convicted of a crime at this level of magnitude and the reasoning behind it.

  4. #104
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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post

    What is relevant is whether it is appropriate to free someone dully convicted of a crime at this level of magnitude and the reasoning behind it.
    I believe the reasoning behind it was that the Scottish and Westminster governments thought that Mehrahi's appeal would exonerate him post-humanously.

    There would then be outrage that an innocent man had died in jail as well as fresh demands for a wide ranging investigation into the Lockerbie bombing, that would be politically inconvenient to say the least. By forcing Megrahi to drop his appeal this has been avoided. I do not believe this is necessarily the "correct" thing to do, I even called it a sham earlier, however I am happy that a man who I do not believe was ever proven to be involved in this crime will not die in jail.

    I am frustrated that those baying for blood have been unprepared to look at the case in the smallest bit of depth, and have instead generally resorted to insults and emotional blackmail.
    We all live under the same sky, but we don't all have the same horizon

  5. #105
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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    It disgust me that people were cheering him home
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  6. #106
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    Re: Terminally ill Lockerbie bomber released

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    It disgust me that people were cheering him home
    That is exactly what I was about to say.

    The sight of hundreds cheering him and receiving him as a hero is truly disgusting to say the very least
    "True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
    To understand does not mean to support or to excuse

  7. #107
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    Angry Lockerbie bomber released

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNjEl3Hs9gQ"]YouTube - Lockerbie bomber released. Shame on MacAskill says widowed Stephanie Bernstein.[/ame]

    Stephanie Bernstein whose husband Michael was killed in the Pan Am 103 fight bombed out of the sky and onto Lockerbie, Scotland, speaks to BBC News.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie Bernstein
    Kenny MacAskill should be ashamed. I think this is a sad day for the people of Scotland, for the people of the United Kingdom and for the people of the United States if a mass-murderer is allowed to go free.
    BBC: Lockerbie bomber returns to Libya.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsIliuALUmg"]YouTube - FBI slams MacAskill as Gaddafi embraces bomber, thanking Queen's ministers.[/ame]

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert S. Mueller, FBI Director
    Your action in releasing Megrahi is as inexplicable as it is detrimental to the cause of justice. Indeed your action makes a mockery of the rule of law.

    Your action gives comfort to terrorists around the world who now believe that regardless of the quality of the investigation, the conviction by jury after the defendant is given all due process, and sentence appropriate to the crime, the terrorist will be freed by one man's exercise of "compassion."

    Your action rewards a terrorist even though he never admitted to his role in this act of mass murder and even though neither he nor the government of Libya ever disclosed the names and roles of others who were responsible.
    BBC: FBI boss attacks Megrahi release


  8. #108
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    Re: Lockerbie bomber released

    Releasing this asshat made me ashamed of my Scottish heritage.

    I want to apologize to everyone for what my cousins have done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #109
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    idea Oil deals for Lockerbie bomber compassionate release.

    How the UK employed Prince Andrew, the Duke of York to set up Libyan oil deals for compassionate release of the Lockerbie bomber Megrahi.





    Prince Andrew, the Duke of York is the second son and third child of Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh. As well as carrying out various royal duties, he currently serves as the United Kingdom's Special Representative for International Trade and Investment reporting to Peter Mandelson who is the UK's current First Secretary of State, Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, President of the Board of Trade and Lord President of the Council. In that capacity he has visited Libya and met with Gaddafi several times to set up oil deals.

    In 2007, Prince Andrew was appointed by his mother, the Queen, as the [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_High_Commissioner_to_the_General_Assembly_of_ the_Church_of_Scotland]Lord High Commissioner of the Church of Scotland[/ame] in 2007, a post previously held by David Steel, the first Presiding Officer of the re-convened Scottish Parliament and a post now held by George Reid, the 2nd former Presiding Officer of the new Scottish Parliament.

    By use of such patronage, the UK royal family is able to form close links with influential persons in Scottish politics and with the Scottish churches.

    Therefore Prince Andrew has all the connections anyone would ever need to set up a Libyan oil deals for Scottish justice "compassionate release" for the Lockerbie bomber.

    Indeed, Colonel Gaddafi has publicly thanked Prince Andrew for arranging the release of Megrahi.

    So Peter Mandelson may claim to know nothing of any such deal but he certainly appointed the right person, Prince Andrew, to set such a deal up and it looks like that is exactly what has happened.

    Therefore whereas it may well be the case that Kenny MacAskill has not personally profited from Libyan oil deal money, it is entirely possible that some back channel deal involving third party donations to one or more of the Church of Scotland's worthy causes has bought pro-compassionate-release spiritual advice from the Church of Scotland clerics to Kenny MacAskill and it may be it is those who interpret MacAskill's Christian faith for him who were the ones who have convinced him that compassionate release was the thing to do in Megrahi's case.

    Certainly, the church is always short of money and certainly that is how Arab monarchs and dictators often operate in their own countries - by funding Islamic programmes and sometimes even getting the Islamic clerics to put out pro-jehadi messages when they wish to incite terrorist wars by proxy fought by the likes of Al Qaeda but in a plausibly deniable way which is not easily identified directly as being ordered by the monarch or dictator concerned.

    So supporting terrorism in this modest way has begun in European Christian churches as bought by Arab or African oil money. What is next?

    Are we going to see Libyan or other oil money funding Christian crusader suicide bombers, bought and paid for by oil deal money?

    It happened in the Arab world and it could happen here. The release of this terrorist is just the start unless we get wise to what this oil money in the wrong hands is buying - a terrorist war against our values of freedom and democracy and in favour of monarchy and dictatorship.

  10. #110
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    Angry FBI Outrage as Lockerbie bomber sold by Kingdom for Libyan oil.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd2vLkNqjso"]YouTube - FBI Outrage as Lockerbie bomber sold by Kingdom for Libyan oil.[/ame]

    CBS News reports on Gaddafi embracing the return of the Lockerbie bomber to Libya and the FBI Director's outrage expressed in a letter to the Scottish Justice Minister of the Queen's government of Scotland.

    Statements from Gaddafi's son provide more evidence that the release has been demanded as the price of doing oil deal business with Gaddafi.

    Additional comment after the CBS News report by Peter Dow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Dow
    Prince Andrew was appointed by his mother Queen Elizabeth as the Lord High Commissioner of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland for 2007.

    Kenny MacAskill, the Scottish justice secretary who released Megrahi, and other Scottish politicians defer to the royal family, state officials and church leaders.

    Therefore Prince Andrew is well placed to be able to use his contacts with the Scottish establishment to encourage Megrahi's release on compassionate grounds in order to facilitate oil deals with Libya.

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