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Thread: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I think it's quite telling how the followers can tell us what's not going on, but don't have a clue about what is going on.
    Yet, you need Rush to tell you how to think. Without Rush, you have no opinion.
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Indeed. Funny how they all know how it's going to turn out when the President himself doesn't have all the details... Then again, that's never stopped HIM from opening his mouth before.
    What's funny is that you don't know how it will turn out either, yet, you drink conservative kool-aid.
    It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    A government run health care system would be wide open to fraud.
    Sort of like Haliburton (sic) in Iraq?
    It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
    Emiliano Zapata


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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Yes, it absolutely would. That's probably the best part of the plan.

    Any government plan, just like any private insurance, involves decisions of cost-efficiency. If there is a 95 year old person in poor health develops a cancer that will kill them in 5 months, the government plan will not (or at least should not) pay for an expensive cancer drug that will expand that prognosis from 5 months to 10.

    That is the very definition of government making end-of-life decisions. And it's completely okay.
    Please show me in the bill where this senerio will take place? This is an assumption that has never been proven.
    It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    No problem!!!! just borrow $2,000,000,000,000 from the Chinese.

    Oh wait.... they are divesting themselves of our dept as we speak.

    I got it!!!! Just print more money.
    Yeah, we are still paying for the search for WMD in Iraq. When Clinton left office there was not a deifict, when GWB left there was. It amazes me how conservative forgot that GWB put us in this mess.
    It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
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  6. #86
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    HR3200
    The article is wrong. The language is there--sugar-coated and glossed over--but it is still there.
    If one reads it and adds to it things that aren't actually there.
    Please take a look at the duties an responsibilities of this group and yo see a lack of power or design to do any of the things you say they will do.

    It just isn't there.

    We went through this before. You were quite unable to quote the language that lets them do anything like what you think.

    Do they still teach sentence diagramming in schools these days?
    I may be wrong.

  7. #87
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by buck
    Regardless - take the low-end, there are 10 million illegals. Obama still claims it is a moral imperative to insure the 47 million uninsured.
    Still no proof eh?



    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    What? In what world are illegal immigrants considered "Americans"? I'll grant you that it's a closer question when it comes to people who are permanent residents/on certain visas, but it's absurd to pretend that illegal immigrants should be considered "Americans" for the purpose of convincing people that we need health care reform (which won't cover them anyways).
    Who said anything about considering illegal immigrants 'Americans'?

    The Census Bureau says nothing about illegals.

    The CNS article, along with many others, are using the argument that since President Obama and others use the term uninsured "Americans", rather than the term "people" - the term the census bureau uses - when describing people in the United States without insurance therefore the report breakout that shows that 9.7 million people are "not a citizen" and should be deducted from the total amount of uninsured.

    My point is why are the foreign born not inclusive in the uninsured population of the United States?

    Foreign born (both naturalized and not a citizen) and nativity breakout is used by the bureau in most all studies and cited by just about everyone imaginable.

    When talking about Income and earnings of Americans..."not a citizen" is used.

    When talking about Americans in poverty..."not a citizen" is used.

    When talking about a population of 300 million Americans..."not a citizen" is used.

    Why exclude them from the ranks of uninsured? Political convenience?
    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    ...One study indicated that 64% of illegal immigrants did not have health insurance. Another study indicated that 59% did not have health insurance...
    Of course the illegal immigration population is estimated, but since your first article gave no figures let's take the second one (Pew's). Their estimate is 11.9 million unauthorized immigrants. 59% or 64% (take your pick) of that figure falls well short of your estimate of 10-12 million.

    No matter we still revert back to the census report as both of your cites are based on an analysis of data from the March Current Population Survey, conducted by the Census Bureau.

    That report makes no mention of illegals. To clarify, there may be some illegals that responded to the census survey, but not to the extent that would exclude all other nationalities and legal immigrants covered under "not a citizen".

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    I'm not citing any article to prove anything other than the numbers I provided. It's true that there may be some reasons why someone making more than $75k is unable to get insurance, but I think it's clear that that's the exception that proves the rule.
    In the aforementioned earlier discussion you did make a sweeping accusation without exceptions. And no it's not clear that that's the exception that proves the rule.
    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    Of that 35 million, approximately 9 million are people who have household incomes of over $75k. These are not people who are unable to get health insurance, these are people who are uninsured either by choice or by their own action.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/health...post1057975668
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    The thing that most of the people I've talked to, at the town hall protest in Tampa, understand that Health Care Reform is not about putting a clean, streamlined bill together. It's about the fact that Americans understand that we cannot centralize control over our health care. It has no bearing that there is misleading information all over the place. We, as a country, cannot let the government dictate procedure, or payment, or direct health care in any way. No matter what administration has power over the country. The administration will change, in God willing 4 years. History proves that once the government has decision-making control over any entity, it never-ever loosens its grip. It only increases in size and control. If it fails, which it is designed to do, they will only push for more regulation, and more money "fix the unintended consequences". We used to be a free people who understood the Bill of Rights were not just Rights. They are really a Bill of Responsibilities. You have a Responsibility to use your Freedom of speech when concerns over any matter start to restrict your ability to your right of Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You have a responsibility to bear arms, again, when those rights are infringed upon by any source, and especially when it comes from the people appointed to represent our interests. Do NOT misunderstand, you should never use that right without exhausting ALL other options. We just cannot let the people in Washington forget that those "RESPONSIBILITIES" will never be delegated to them alone. They are not, nor have ever been, the smartest or most innovative among us. Our Freedoms are what have led us to the pinnacle of tremendous, unmatched wealth and widespread charity. The people who believe the government could ever Reform anything properly, misunderstand the fact that man is imperfect and will always create unforeseen problems. Those problems should never be under the dictate of government. Government is Force, and nothing less. It cannot coincide with liberty, unless minimilized and restricted.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by TBone View Post
    Sort of like Haliburton (sic) in Iraq?
    Yeah, and Fannie and Freddie, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Since this thread is about dispelling health care myths, I figgered i would post this from the Libbo loved Factcheck.org, dispelling the myth that abortions won't be paid for by the public plan.

    The truth is that bills now before Congress don’t require federal money to be used for supporting abortion coverage. So the president is right to that limited extent. But it’s equally true that House and Senate legislation would allow a new "public" insurance plan to cover abortions, despite language added to the House bill that technically forbids using public funds to pay for them.




    Abortion: Which Side Is Fabricating? | FactCheck.org
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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