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Thread: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    If someone can't afford to pay $4,500 dollars for a downpayment, they obviously don't have the money to cover any major life emergency that might suddenly arise. What if they lose their job tomorrow? If they don't even have $4,500 available in the bank to support themselves without working, then the new car they bought just became a giant albatross around their neck. THAT was my point. If you can't pay cash, you can't afford it.
    That's an oversimplification. Perhaps $4,500 is a bit farther into the sock drawer than they want to reach....for the very reasons you state.

    For some what you say is true. For others it is not.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    That's an oversimplification. Perhaps $4,500 is a bit farther into the sock drawer than they want to reach....for the very reasons you state.

    For some what you say is true. For others it is not.
    You're assuming that it's logical to say that there is a time when someone can "afford" to go in to debt. How can you afford something but not be able to pay for it?
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    that's not my interpretation. quite a stretch, i think.

    The Director shall prioritize areas for the identification, development, evaluation, and implementation of best practices (including innovative methodologies and strategies) for quality improvement activities in the delivery of health care services (in this section referred to as `best practices').

    where is the requirment for counseling sessions?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    Your assertion. Your burden of proof.

    BTW..10-20 million is a pretty wide gap when talking about a group of people of 45 million.
    10 - 20 million is a pretty wide gap. Apparently you don't realize that people tend not to admit to being illegal. You know, that whole not wanting to be arrested / deported thing. So, any number given is purely an estimate - hence the gap is wider than if they could pin the number down. Most estimates are between 10 - 20.

    Regardless - take the low-end, there are 10 million illegals. Obama still claims it is a moral imperative to insure the 47 million uninsured. So, how's he going to do that when a significant number are illegals and he claims he won't insure illegals?

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    10 - 20 million is a pretty wide gap. Apparently you don't realize that people tend not to admit to being illegal. You know, that whole not wanting to be arrested / deported thing. So, any number given is purely an estimate - hence the gap is wider than if they could pin the number down. Most estimates are between 10 - 20.

    Regardless - take the low-end, there are 10 million illegals. Obama still claims it is a moral imperative to insure the 47 million uninsured. So, how's he going to do that when a significant number are illegals and he claims he won't insure illegals?
    I doubt that the calculated estimate of the uninsured included illegals when it was done.

    Illegals are most likely extraneous to the US population census statistics. After all, what illegal would reveal himself to a census taker?

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Here ya go:

    STATEMENT 2 Some 47 million Americans do not have health insurance.

    This number from the Census Bureau is often cited as evidence that the health system is failing for many American families. Yet by masking tremendous heterogeneity in personal circumstances, the figure exaggerates the magnitude of the problem.

    To start with, the 47 million includes about 10 million residents who are not American citizens. Many are illegal immigrants. Even if we had national health insurance, they would probably not be covered.

    The number also fails to take full account of Medicaid, the governmentís health program for the poor. For instance, it counts millions of the poor who are eligible for Medicaid but have not yet applied. These individuals, who are healthier, on average, than those who are enrolled, could always apply if they ever needed significant medical care. They are uninsured in name only.

    The 47 million also includes many who could buy insurance but havenít. The Census Bureau reports that 18 million of the uninsured have annual household income of more than $50,000, which puts them in the top half of the income distribution. About a quarter of the uninsured have been offered employer-provided insurance but declined coverage.

    Of course, millions of Americans have trouble getting health insurance. But they number far less than 47 million, and they make up only a few percent of the population of 300 million.

    Any reform should carefully focus on this group to avoid disrupting the vast majority for whom the system is working. We do not nationalize an industry simply because a small percentage of the work force is unemployed. Similarly, we should be wary of sweeping reforms of our health system if they are motivated by the fact that a small percentage of the population is uninsured.

    The New York Times > Log In

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    If you are tired of all the right-wing lies....check the facts:


    FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root - Yahoo! News

    Fact #1: THE FACTS: Nothing being debated in Washington would give the government such authority. Critics have twisted a provision in a House bill that would direct Medicare to pay for counseling sessions about end-of-life care, living wills, hospices and the like if a patient wants such consultations with a doctor. They have said, incorrectly, that the elderly would be required to have these sessions.

    Fact #2 : THE FACTS: Obama is not proposing a single-payer system in which the government covers everyone, like in Canada or some European countries. He says that direction is not right for the U.S. The proposals being negotiated do not go there.

    [I]Fact#3: THE FACTS: The House version of legislation would allow coverage for abortion in the public plan. But the procedure would be paid for with dollars from beneficiary premiums, not from federal funds. Likewise, private plans in the new insurance exchange could opt to cover abortion, but no federal subsidies would be used to pay for the procedure.
    Looky here at all the lefties jumping in to say Thanks. Thanks DD, you settled the entire problem in one post.
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    I doubt that the calculated estimate of the uninsured included illegals when it was done.
    SO, what you're saying is Obama and his cohorts are too stupid to realize that the 47 million uninsured includes at least 10 million illegals?

    Or are you saying that Obama says it's imperative we get insurance for the 47 million unisured, but he really doesn't mean that, he's just talking?
    Last edited by buck; 08-21-09 at 07:27 PM.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG
    Notice it says foreigners, not illegals.

    One of the first arguments from those in opposition to this reform was that the number of uninsured include...*gasp*...foreigners, when clearly Obama, Pelosi, Reid, et. al. said 'Americans'. These foreigners live, work, go to school, pay taxes everyday right along with 'Americans'. We include them in everything we do, but now all of a sudden they don't count when it's politically convenient. Where are these people supposed to go when they get sick? Back to Vietnam? Brazil? Indonesia?
    What? In what world are illegal immigrants considered "Americans"? I'll grant you that it's a closer question when it comes to people who are permanent residents/on certain visas, but it's absurd to pretend that illegal immigrants should be considered "Americans" for the purpose of convincing people that we need health care reform (which won't cover them anyways).

    At best it's a misstatement, at worst it's a lie. Nothing else.

    From the census bureau on the uninsured

    If you were to make a huge assumption and said that every 'not a citizen' was an illegal it would still be short of 10-12 million, but then that would leave no room for all the other 'not a citizen' living in the United States from all the other countries in the world.
    And as was discussed in that thread, there are other studies that indicate the numbers may be higher, depending on the method of calculation. One study indicated that 64% of illegal immigrants did not have health insurance. Another study indicated that 59% did not have health insurance at any point in 07 (this means that the rate would likely be considered higher, as the government traditionally counts someone among the ranks of the uninsured if they are without insurance for any part of the year. Depending on the number of illegal immigrants in the country, that may place the number higher.

    I addressed this also. While I agree that some can afford to buy health insurance, but for what ever reason refuse to do so. However the article made the sweeping assumption that everyone that made over X amount could afford insurance, without investigating as to the why. They may have been refused insurance because of a preexisting condition, they may have a child with an uninsurable condition, who knows. They made claims based on.....well really....nothing!
    I'm not citing any article to prove anything other than the numbers I provided. It's true that there may be some reasons why someone making more than $75k is unable to get insurance, but I think it's clear that that's the exception that proves the rule.
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    I doubt that the calculated estimate of the uninsured included illegals when it was done.
    No, it absolutely did. Did you read the thread?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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