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Thread: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

  1. #21
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Indeed. Funny how they all know how it's going to turn out when the President himself doesn't have all the details... Then again, that's never stopped HIM from opening his mouth before.
    Oh the President is right on top of things. He knows important details such as the fact that the AARP is behind health care reform 100%. Check that.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    If you are tired of all the right-wing lies....check the facts:


    FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root - Yahoo! News
    It's a bit depressing that journalists keep on missing the nuance of arguments and are so focused on strawmen. Absolutely piss poor reasoning on their part.

    THE POLL: 45 percent said it's likely the government will decide when to stop care for the elderly; 50 percent said it's not likely.

    Fact #1: [I]THE FACTS: Nothing being debated in Washington would give the government such authority. Critics have twisted a provision in a House bill that would direct Medicare to pay for counseling sessions about end-of-life care, living wills, hospices and the like if a patient wants such consultations with a doctor. They have said, incorrectly, that the elderly would be required to have these sessions.
    Yes, it absolutely would. That's probably the best part of the plan.

    Any government plan, just like any private insurance, involves decisions of cost-efficiency. If there is a 95 year old person in poor health develops a cancer that will kill them in 5 months, the government plan will not (or at least should not) pay for an expensive cancer drug that will expand that prognosis from 5 months to 10.

    That is the very definition of government making end-of-life decisions. And it's completely okay.

    THE POLL: 54 percent said the overhaul will lead to a government takeover of health care; 39 percent disagree.

    THE FACTS: Obama is not proposing a single-payer system in which the government covers everyone, like in Canada or some European countries. He says that direction is not right for the U.S. The proposals being negotiated do not go there.
    Is this writer retarded? Does he not understand that "government takeover" =/= immediate single-payer? It's completely reasonable to believe that the house bill will eventually lead to a government takeover even though it is obviously not single payer.

    THE POLL: 50 percent expect taxpayer dollars will be used to pay for abortions; 37 percent don't.

    THE FACTS: The House version of legislation would allow coverage for abortion in the public plan. But the procedure would be paid for with dollars from beneficiary premiums, not from federal funds. Likewise, private plans in the new insurance exchange could opt to cover abortion, but no federal subsidies would be used to pay for the procedure.
    Saying that abortions will be paid for only by private premiums, when the system will be (in no trivial part) subsidized by the government is absolutely idiotic. It's like saying that we're going to pass the stimulus, but it won't come out of your tax dollars. It's all coming out of and going into the same place.

    Really a poor showing all around.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  3. #23
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Yes, it absolutely would. That's probably the best part of the plan.

    Any government plan, just like any private insurance, involves decisions of cost-efficiency. If there is a 95 year old person in poor health develops a cancer that will kill them in 5 months, the government plan will not (or at least should not) pay for an expensive cancer drug that will expand that prognosis from 5 months to 10.

    That is the very definition of government making end-of-life decisions. And it's completely okay.
    From all I can find out, it is not a personal, "you are 95 and dying, you are out of luck", it's just like normal insurance, deciding what is "covered" and what is not. The government is not getting involved on a personal level.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And while you're at it, Redress, you can point out where it says that it won't give free healthcare to 15 million illegals and detail how it's going to make health care costs go down, exactly.
    I'm more worried about medicare fraud like that has happened over the past several years.

    BIRMINGHAM, Ala.—- HealthSouth shareholder attorneys are asking a judge to place sanctions on Richard Scrushy for property being stripped from his Vestavia Hills and Lake Martin residences.

    In a motion filed Tuesday afternoon, lawyers claimed that “entire rooms had been stripped” from Scrushy’s Vestavia Hills mansion as of last Wednesday.

    They argue furniture, art, drapes and other furnishings had been removed along with antiques and silverware from both his Vestavia Hills home and his Lake Martin property.

    Shareholder attorneys are trying to seize Scrushy’s property to satisfy a $2.8 billion court judgment after a judge ruled in June that Scrushy directed HealthSouth’s massive accounting fraud scandal.

    HealthSouth shareholder attorneys: Scrushy mansion stripped bare | NBC13.com
    Americans ripping Americans off what a great nation when they are in need.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    From all I can find out, it is not a personal, "you are 95 and dying, you are out of luck", it's just like normal insurance, deciding what is "covered" and what is not. The government is not getting involved on a personal level.
    Sounds like rationing to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #26
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    HR3200


    The article is wrong. The language is there--sugar-coated and glossed over--but it is still there.
    It's clear that you don't understand what you are reading.
    It's time for a revolution in our country. Not a revolution forged with guns and bombs but a revolution forged of compassion and altruism. A revolution that extends a hand to those who don't have and who cannot. A revolution that makes Health Care available to all those in the US.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Tell me where in the bill it details how there's going to be adequate funding AND doctors to suddenly deal with the waves of Obama's 40 million uninsured WITHOUT rationing the care given.
    We need to move past this notion of rationing.

    Market allocation according to price is tantamount to rationing. There, it has been said. Regardless of what Congress does and does not do we will have rationing, going by the strictest interpretation of the term.

    We have rationing today. We will have rationing tomorrow.

    That is where the Administration and the Congress have failed to be honest even with themselves. Comparative Effectiveness Research and "Best Practice" implementation are nothing more than shoddy euphemisms for the mechanics of bureaucratic rationing. The research and practices so identified are merely the means by which it will be determined which patient receives which treatment and under which protocol--that is rationing, just as market allocation is rationing.

    We have rationing today. We will have rationing tomorrow.

    The question is not "will we ration?"--we already know that we will--but rather "how will we ration?" Is it more equitable to ration per market allocation or by government diktat? Do we achieve greater justice through the invisible hand or the visible one? Do we trust individuals transacting their individual health affairs, or do we place greater faith in regulatory agencies near and far?

    We have rationing today. We will have rationing tomorrow.

    There is rationing in HR3200. There will be rationing in HR3200 when it comes to a floor vote in the Congress. There will be rationing in whatever bill wends all the way through both houses of Congress and lands in the Oval Office to be signed. That is known fact and should be acknowledged fact.

    We have rationing today. We will have rationing tomorrow.

    The particular question regarding rationing in this health care reform debate is simply this: do we want government to ration medical care among the people?

    We have rationing today. We will have rationing tomorrow.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    It's clear that you don't understand what you are reading.
    Then be so kind as to explicate how I am reading it wrong, as you have read it correctly.

  9. #29
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    From all I can find out, it is not a personal, "you are 95 and dying, you are out of luck", it's just like normal insurance, deciding what is "covered" and what is not. The government is not getting involved on a personal level.
    I don't think they are either, but if the plan is anything like the British NICE, they will be making decisions about what is and is not covered that will result in many people not getting treatments that could extend their lives.

    I'm 100% fine with that, as it's the only way to really run a healthcare system, but to pretend it's not there, as this article does, is ridiculous.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    We have been over the illegal immigrant lie already you know. Do you just have zero memory, or do you enjoy having people prove you wrong repeatedly?

    Seven Falsehoods About Health Care | FactCheck.org



    Yes, that is right, the bill specifically denies illegal aliens.
    If it specifically denies illegal aliens, how will 20 some million of the 47 million people without insurance that Obama keeps saying "will be covered by this bill" get insurance?

    Or does Obama himself need some fact checking?

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